Norway, Holland, France, and India, to ban the sale of diesel/gas engines

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by derstuka, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    Whelp, Norway and Holland propose to ban the sale of ICE (internal combusion engine) by 2025, France by 2040, and India by 2030. India has already banned the sale and use of diesels in some major cities. I can understand why some cities (such as New Delhi) have banned gross polluting vehicles (older diesels, 2-strokes), as the air in their cities usually rated at several times, to several hundred times, over the safe limit for a person. Lots of older vehicles in New Delhi (such as the very smoky trikes) are where the majority of the car contributed pollution resides from. Think back to LA and other cities in the 50's, 60's and 70's (before emissions requirements). The air was horrid.

    In addition to the aforementioned countries, Germany (proposal to ban by 2025, as well as others), are in talks of restricting, and/or banning the sale of ICE as well. Some may still allow hybrid ICE in the short-term. It might be several years away for some of you lads that live in said countries, however, you best pick a winna-winna chicken dinna for your last ICE....as it may be your last time to brrraaaaaappp it up!

    Although it think it is quite an ambitious plan, I don't think they are going to get everybody (buying a new car) to switch over from the current 1-2 percent that own one (or slightly more than own a hybrid) without a fight (in the courts)...they are tightening the noose. I know here in the US, they'd have one hell of a fight on their hands. Peeps not be wanting to give up their older cars, or be forced to buy something new that is expensive, limits/extends/complicates their travel.

    I am really curious to see how well the masses of these electric cars are going to fare in the extreme colder climates (like Norway, Sweden). Your car sitting outside for days in -30F....I mean, not everybody is going to have a nice heated garage. Heating up, and keeping heated, the interior takes up a lot of juice, along with less light meaning the headlights need to be used more, along with the efficiency lost by the cold temperature on the batteries themselves. All of these equates to range lost, and even more range anxiety.....so I hope they provide a 50 mile long extension cord. LOL. Nothing like being stranded in a snow storm with a dead EV and no way to recharge it. That be the suck. Anyway, should be interesting in how they plan to overcome that for the "masses."

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news...plans-to-end-new-gas-diesel-car-sales-by-2025
    http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/06/france-plans-to-ban-sale-of-diesel-gasoline-vehicles/
     
  2. JZH

    JZH New Member

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    People in the industry expect that most cars sold in 20 years will be electric anyway. Banning new ICE cars now "by 2040" is just greenwashing.

    Ciao,
     
  3. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    Well, I guess that electric power needs to be solar, natural gas, hydro and (god forbid nuclear, japans bullshit move to build a Nuclear plant on the highest active continental shelf and the results prove themselves on this as well as other countries including the U.S. ) to justify this because coal or other fossil fuels are the #1 used source of production in the world (China, India, Russia, Ukraine, Korea, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Sadia Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Malaysia etc.) It is just as bad as shit coming out of a gas car, but just miles away so we all feel good about our carbon footprint buying electric. What happened to natural gas cars and hydrogen? Oil companies and big money! North America should go N.G. and other countries should find there best solution like Hydrogen instead of electric, unless not fossil fuel based! And again may those that propose a Nuclear plant as a solution be advise that it be in a solid land mass that is low on systemic activity and not prone to be in a tsunami risk costal areas. Unless they want to kill all ocean life as well as their own. IMO
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  4. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Electric Harleys? Sturgis moves to the Columbia River Gorge so harleydoods can tap into power sources.

    It's always a little flakey when proposed becomes it's happening. Proposed is proposed. Hell, I proposed to Raquel Welch once. She never answered then I found oot she wasn't available, So much for proposals. In retrospect, I think it was the fur outfit.

    Another one that falls into the black hole of vagueness is "appropriate."
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  5. Joey_Dude

    Joey_Dude Member

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    With the climate change and all I do agree that we have to pursue alternative energy sources. But from a practical standpoint, it's a real uphill battle converting people to change from gas to electric. For one thing, some people can barely afford a cheap gas vehicle, how can they make the jump to a brand new electric vehicle? I'm guilty myself with owning a big crown vic that gets about 19mpg in the city. But it's cheap and all paid off. I don't want to blow my money just for an electric vehicle.

    And of course there's the range anxiety issue. I'm thinking that maybe in 10 years I'll cave in and buy an electric vehicle but I'll still keep the crown vic for super long distance drives. I've heard some promising technologies using hydrogen fuel cells. What's cool is that hydrogen vehicles only exhaust is literally water. There's been some pilot programs but still, there's the massive cost in establishing hydrogen fuel centers. Maybe they can just convert existing gas stations to hydrogen stations but I'm not holding my breath for that.

    IMO, the most realistic and practical option would be to change the infrastructure so that people can easily get goods and commute to work without having to drive around much. If you look at old cities in europe they were not designed for cars and people can just walk around for groceries. I live in metro atlanta area but the problem is you simply need a car just to do anything. Maybe it would help if they'd establish more bus routes, streetcars, and extend their subway system. And the buses, streetcars, subways, etc.. would all be electric powered so that would reduce the carbon footprint.

    But again, it's a huge uphill battle making such a drastic change and it will be interesting indeed to see how the next several decades play out.
     
  6. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    There was the dude whose electric cage quit on him. He pulled over, popped the hood, fiddled with some wires, the thing shorted oot and turned him into beef jerky. Ruined his cellphone too.

    I'm not sold until the airlines start using batteries to get the big birds in the air.
     
  7. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    ^This. Well said Joseph.
     
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  8. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    I am not against electric cars, owning one, or otherwise....however, it would be to supplement my ICEs. Ideally, the price would need to keep coming down as I cannot afford a Tesla, nor do I want a car with a 150 mile range in "ideal" conditions. There are just too many limitations at this point. As Joey dabbled on, I wouldn't mind one for the city, or shorter distance commutes, but longer trips, or if I lived in extreme climates with very harsh winters, I think not lad.

    One thing to think of as well, if you don't think cars see (hear) you now, wait until all we ride are electric bikes. Whisper quite (comparatively). Maybe they will have soundtracks that you can play as you ride. I know that BB would be the envy of his 'hood rockin' out to his favorite "POTATO POTATO, POTATO" tunes (Hardly Ableson of course). :Drum::Bluesbros::Music:
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  9. Joey_Dude

    Joey_Dude Member

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    Because of this, I'm actually thinking about holding off on buying another gas-powered motorcycle. True there are electric bikes now but the range isn't the best plus they start at high prices of 20k-30k. I'd just hate to buy a shiny used 1098 only to be unable to sell it later on when the government has declared the end of gasoline.
     
  10. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Maybe someone should propose to Honda that the new 1000 cc VFR is electric. As to being quiet, maybe some body has a soundbite of one of the electric bikes.In the interim I am investing in companies that make long extension cords.

    There is a distinct advantage in being the (former) owner of a Harley that borders the existential.

    Try to differentiate proposed from propositioned. I am not available. ;)
     
  11. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    This post twanged my nationalistic nerve. New Zealand has ample resources of hydroelectric, geothermal, wind and tidal power, and our main thermal generation comes from locally sourced natural gas. According to Wiki 81% of our electricity generation came from renewable source in 2015. Our bigger greenhouse gas problem is actually methane generated by fields full of farting livestock (no, really).
     
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  12. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Member

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    Terry, I apologize for being so misinformed. I love the fact that New Zealand is so far advanced and did not fall into the fossil fuel fight. New Zealand needs to teach the U.S.A how to use and not hide the enormous natural gas resources and reserve that we have. It would be great to have the hydro recourses as well other than a few in the states. Fu..ing Las Vegas is a power whore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  13. straycat

    straycat Member

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    Are they saying there will be an outright ban on ICE cars or just a ban on the sale of "New" ICE cars. Ie your grandfathered if you already have an ICE car but you'd no longer be able to buy a brand new one after a certain date ?
     
  14. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    Well, one usually creeps up behind the other. At first is a ban on sales of ICEs, however, as an example, Paris has recently banned ICE cars registered prior to 1997, and motorcycles before 1999. Once ICEs are banned for sale, I can see more and more of this type of stuff increasing in frequency around the world until they have the vise so tight your poor viffer is gasping for breath.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...8990/paris-old-car-ban-pollution-smog-traffic
     
  15. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    What "they" are saying is a shitload of proposals. The only real inroad that is semi-solid is that Volvo is going to stop making dino fuel cars. Or so they say.

    Conjecture is not reality. Besides, great leader will nuke any of those third world assholes who get in the way of him on his gold plated Harley.
     
  16. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    You bests build some patience JD. Brrraaaap.....erm I mean whirrrrrr be a while away.

    I was at a test facility were they also happened to be testing a zero electric bikes, well, let me tell you, they have a long ways to go until they can emulate even half that of an ICE bike. Imagine going on a long trip with a bike with a claimed 200 mile range. Having to stop shy of 200 miles (without fast charger) each day to charge it for 6-8 hours would be the suck. If you want one for short jaunts to pick up scratchers at the piggly wiggly, then bobs your uncle!
     
  17. Joey_Dude

    Joey_Dude Member

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    I totally agree with you that the batteries really have a long way to go to be a viable replacement for ICE's. Maybe there will be improved battery technologies or alternative charging methods. We can only wait to see what happens.
     
  18. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    JD,

    I'm just egging' you on to get another bike. It is time!

    Hahaha
     
  19. JZH

    JZH New Member

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    The Paris pollution ban is a little more complicated than that, for example, the most polluting vehicles are only banned from city centres during certain times, not completely banned. But, they are committed to ratcheting up the restrictions until car use in Paris is reduced to half of what it had been prior to the restrictions. It also applies, in various ways, to the French cities of Grenoble, Lyon and Lille (Strasbourg to follow later this year). More insidiously, all vehicles taken into restricted zones--even when not restricted--must display a CRIT-air sticker...even foreign-registered vehicles (and the stickers must be purchased about one month in advance).

    In the UK we have a different system, the Ultra Low Emissions Zone in central London, which follows from the Low Emissions Zone scheme, which was (apparently) so useless it had to be replaced within a few years. No stickers are required, and no vehicles are banned, but those vehicles deemed polluting by their registration documents can only be driven within the ULEZ if a fee is paid.

    Ciao,
     
  20. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    Thanks mucho for clarifying JZH. I was just being overly simplistic of an example where there already is a ban. I didn't have the time to get into the nitty gritty.

    Curious, is there a requirement to have motorcycles smog (emissions) checked in the UK? If so, what range of years?
     
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