what is the proper emergency braking technique with ABS?

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by REEK, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. REEK

    REEK New Member

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    I was wondering this as I was riding home today. I grew up without ABS and all of my safety courses, advance courses, etc were done before ABS even existed on bikes.

    my VFR doesn't have ABS but my Triumph does. My VFR will soon be replaced with one with ABS. so that made me wonder, what is the emergency braking technique recommended?

    do I brake as I've always done? or do I just grab a handful of brake and go to town? ABS will do all the hard work and modulates way faster than I ever could even imagine.

    any thoughts?
     
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  2. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    I have the ABS version & have never used it 'yet'..
    I tend (if you ask other friends) to be fairly on / off on the brakes & am probably 80/20 front rear. I do tend to stand on the rear as I'm used to sports bikes where it has no effect & have the rear chirping at at me on the way to work !

    If I had to think about it (& I'm not sure that I would 'think') I'd mash the lot. A crash at 20mph is better than one at 40mph.
     
  3. RhINO

    RhINO New Member

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    You get better brake results if you're just below where the abs kicks in. One test for the drivers license in Sweden is a brake from 70 and from 90 kph and the way the school taught was to grab the brake and when you felt the abs shake, release just a bit.

    Skickat från min E5823 via Tapatalk
     
  4. RobVG

    RobVG Member

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    Hmm.
    I
    Haven't felt the "shake" .
     
  5. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I have said it before, a human can not think and react as fast as the ABS computer. It's job is maximize the static co-effecient of friction which is all that is between you and the road. If you lose that, you are operating under the sliding co-effecient of friction which is a lot lower when your tires are skidding. Maximum stopping power occurs when you grab the brakes and let the computer sense when you begin to lose your static grip. I have done it when a woman stopped unexpectedly in front of me, no time think or react other than a fist full of brake lever. I have also experienced the ass end of my 83 swing out when a guy was about to pull out in front of me. It is not to say a highly trained race rider can use his non-abs brakes to a better advantage on the track, but we are talking about everyday riders in everyday situations.
     
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  6. OOTV

    OOTV Insider

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    Braking technique should not be any different between ABS and non-ABS brakes IMO, ABS is there to help prevent you from locking up the brakes in a panick situation or when traction is at a minimum. I look at braking very similar to shooting a gun, you don't "pull the trigger", you "squeeze the trigger". You should always be very smooth and not jerky when braking, particularly with the front brakes, regardless of what type of braking system you have.
     
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  7. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    I
    I'm not going to disagree with this except how many people do you know that ride with proper braking technique...
    it's usually a short list...
     
  8. Eagle Six

    Eagle Six New Member

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    Right or wrong, I use ABS brakes pretty much the same as non-ABS. And the same with the VFR linked ABS. The first ABS bike I had was a 2005 ST1300A (in 2006). Coming from a v-twin liter bike I wanted to find the best/shortest stopping distance and started on dry pavement. Making several runs increasing the brake pressure with each when I finally reached the point that the ABS kicked in it was a little un-nerving even though I was expecting and prepared for it. Months later I practiced on a wet surface and my confidence with ABS increased.

    Since then, during a hand full of actual street required emergency/panic stops I do think the ABS is better, but each of those real world stops (which were successful) were different and not something I wanted to replicate for testing non-ABS -vs- ABS! Now both bikes I currently have are ABS and I can appreciate the small advantage. That would not prevent me from riding a non-ABS, but my preference would op for the ABS.
     
  9. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    Proper Emergency ABS Braking Technique:

    1) Identify hazard that you are about to crash into.
    2) Exclaim "Oh shit!!!"
    3) Grab front brake and squeeze as hard as you can and also stomp rear brake lever as hard as you can letting the computer do all the work.
    4) Steer as necessary and hold on for dear life while praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever deity you believe in.
    5) After coming to a complete stop, immediately head home to change your underwear :D

    Seriously though, while it's kicked in several times while driving over the years I've only had ABS kick in once while riding and that was on my old Ninja 300 when a deer popped out in front of me. It worked great. Would I have crashed without ABS? Maybe - but it was nice not having to worry about locking up the wheels so I could focus on other issues.

    Just to be clear, I don't advocate mashing the brakes as hard as you can EXCEPT in a true life or death emergency situation. Otherwise, use brakes normally and ABS will just kick in as necessary when you reach beyond the threshold. But FWIW, here's a couple of videos where they appear to get best results for emergency braking from ABS by mashing the brakes and letting the computer do all the work:



     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  10. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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  11. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    IF....you are using what is proper braking practices with non ABS, continue to do so. Proper braking practices does not change just because you now have ABS. Brake normally. When in a crisis situation, grab a fist full of brakes...hard as you can. The ABS will take care of the needed braking pressures. What you need to focus on then is to steer around the hazard. ABS prevents the lock up which in turn, allows you to steer. ABS also gets you about as close as an average person is going to get to threshold braking which gives you that maximum coefficient of friction mentioned before, and therefore the best braking power. It takes training and a shit lot of practice on each different vehicle to do better than what ABS can do for you.

    REMEMBER.......STEER!
     
  12. RhINO

    RhINO New Member

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    Well, yes and no. I'd say that under certain circumstances, like dry asphalt, you can outbrake the ABS since it's job is not to lock the tire. I've done it in driving school under very coordinated conditions and with the bike upright. I suppose there are better and worse ABS but we were riding Honda Hornets at the time, probably a 2013-2014 version.
    What ABS is bleeding phenomenal at is a panic brake on gravel, which we also did, just stopped the bike. That was also not in a turn btw, don't want to try that. :)
    That being said, I would probably not buy a bike without ABS because in a panic situation I don't know how I'd react.
     
  13. REEK

    REEK New Member

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    thanks for all the replies. definitely something I'll be thinking about. in the past 20 plus years, I've lost my front end twice. once when I was a noobie. second about 10 years into riding. so clearly, despite classes, practice, experience, my braking technique + panic situation are not perfect. I still don't know how I'll do the next time I have to stop suddenly, just hope my years pay off. I'll probably never know what the right way to use ABS will be for me. But now that I'm older, I don't bounce and walk it off so much as break and crutch it off , and I can afford better toys, I'll probably will always buy an ABS bike. main reason I'm selling my 07 RWB I guess, no ABS.
     
  14. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I probably would have saved a lot of money if my track bike had ABS. LOL Washing the front end sucks.
     
  15. fatbastard

    fatbastard New Member

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    I may be doing this wrong, but personally I think you will get the best out of the ABS by braking much the same way you would without it. So still set up and brake. You just brake as hard as you can once the setup is complete. If you just jam on the brakes without setting up you haven't compressed the forks to transfer weight over the front tyre and maximised your contact patch size on the road to get maximum traction.
     
  16. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    The thing is:
    1. Are we talking about trying to stop as quick as possible?
    2. Are we panic braking?
    3. Are we trying to steer around something?

    For no 1 then proper technique is probably fastest - it's what the racers do.

    For 2 & 3 then letting the ABS do the thinking while you concentrate on the avoidance may be best.
     
  17. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    I agree. Except I don't think ABS will allow you to get to threshold braking. Damned close and close enough that I don't think you will notice the difference in handling, but with threshold braking, your tires will howl (not screech like in lock up) and I have yet to hear that with ABS. I can't prove that or offer up any study that confirms this but it is my belief.
     
  18. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    ABS is best for all three - see the video I posted as part of my reply to this thread on page 1 where all three riders were able to improve their braking, including 2 professional riders. If someone can find a video/article by a respected motorcycle magazine where a human out brakes a computer please post it up - I'd love to see it.
     
  19. RhINO

    RhINO New Member

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    I don't know if the ABS on a VFR is better than the one on a Hornet but it's in no way hard to get shorter braking distance than full ABS brake, as I wrote earlier I did it in driving school. The Hornets we drove there were all newer than my -06 VFR with ABS too so those ought to be more modern. I think I did a test from 70kph (what is that? 45 mph ish) and the braking distance was a few meters shorter than when I just put full force on the brakes and got the ABS to engage.

    I'm not bragging about this since I think anyone can do it if they try. I did it when learning to drive a bike and I haven't driven anything motorised on two wheels prior to doing that either more than borrowing friends 50cc mopeds about 23 years earlier. IIRC I got the same results when getting the car license back in -96. There's a mandatory lesson where you have to drive in slippery conditions and there we were doing a all out brake with ABS (jam the brake pedal) and then try to do it as quickly as possible and if you get the ABS not to engage you do stop quicker, on dry road.
     
  20. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    That's very strange. None of the 4 guys in the 2 vids I posted earlier above could beat the ABS. Nor could any of the 5 guys in the 2 vids below. So out of 9 riders in the 4 vids, none of them could beat the ABS and over half of them are professional riders.

    Like I said before, if anyone can find a vid by a respected motorcycle magazine showing a human beating the ABS computer in a braking test please post it up. One thing you'll notice in the first vid below is that all 4 riders did progressively better with ABS in all 3 of their attempts. I don't speak their language so I couldn't understand what they were saying but it appears that as they gained confidence in the ABS they were less tentative to initially mash the brakes and therefore did better each time. I think one of the pro riders in the first vid I posted above said basically the same thing - that he was leery of fully mashing the ABS brakes the first time he tried it. Perhaps that may explain your results - how many times did you attempt emergency braking on the ABS equipped bike?



     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
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