To anyone asking if a motorcycle is too powerful to learn on. Remember this.

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Lint, May 5, 2017.

  1. Lint

    Lint Member

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    It's only as powerful as your right hand. Honestly, why is this so hard to understand. It's a machine, not a living thing with evil intent. You could kill yourself on a 50cc scooter.

    You need to ask yourself, are you self controlled enough to not be an idiot and kill yourself? It is not alive, it will only do what you tell it to do. YOU are the one to worry about, not an inanimate machine. If you feel you lack self control and are impulsive and immature, just don't buy a bike. Just don't. If you can't take responsibility for your actions and be mature enough to get trained and stay self controlled enough to remain working YOUR limits, you really shouldn't be on a bike.

    There's aren't toys that you willy-nilly hop on and do whatever on. They require you to make grown up decisions that can potentially have a profound effect on your life, as well as others, including those that get left behind, or those that have to change your diapers and feed you through a straw after you fuck yourself up from being stupid and making the wrong choices.

    On the other hand, they can be magic machines that transport you to a place far away from the worries and stress of the day. They allow a degree of freedom and participation in the movie of your life that a car can never provide.

    Which one it is, is ENTIRELY UP TO YOU.
     
  2. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    How aboot lefties?
     
  3. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    Well said Lint. Speaking of people who should not ride motorcycles, CycleCruza did a video on this subject recently :glee:

    [video=youtube;dm_wkgWiyeM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_wkgWiyeM[/video]
     
  4. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Yep as it just so happen yesterday on the news up in an area north from here, an 18 year old died after 20 minutes being on a motorcycle for the very first time. His mom in the interview was saying how he had worked so hard to save money to buy one, he hadn't any prior lessons or class or etc. Makes me wonder if this was dealer bought, which brings up a lot of questions. Authority's at the site said the helmet wasn't correctly fasten, the photo of the bike in the ditch looked to bee like a GSXR600, so common, kids think just jump on and go thinking how hard can it be. It's not if you have the basic skill set. and a decent head on your shoulder. still what is it about that abilty to control when you really shouldn't be even close to a machine like these, there are some folks that don't get it even though they are attracted bad combo.
     
  5. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    The actual news reports many times have greater meaning and accuracy than second hand reporting or guessing. This just happened to be a kid. If dealers in general really gave a shit, they would insure that the buyers be certified operators.

    Ironically Harley-Davidson has a program that certifies their new owner/riders.

    North of here could be Canada or Alaska or the North Pole.

    Looks like Ferndale is the location, the bike was a Honda and the kid did not have an endorsement. The reporter might even know if the bike was sold by a dealership, The Washington State Patrol in Bellingham would have further info. Whether or not the helmet was secured is not clear. The news report states the rider hit a lightpole. At 90mph that velocity an impact like that will sometimes cause a rider to be found without shoes.



    http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article145133719.html
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  6. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    I can't agree at all with you on this lint.

    Any 1000 sports bike has about the same power as an F1 car (or Indy car) per ton. The reality is that there are very few people on the planet that can use this power - on the track & even less on the road.
    however, power sells.

    Would you let your daughter / son learn to drive in an Indy car?

    No..

    The reason is that although it is you in control of the throttle, brakes, and steering, the more power you have, the faster things can happen. Letting someone loose on a sports bike over 400cc as their first bike is an organ doner waiting to happen.
     
  7. PawnBoy

    PawnBoy New Member

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    Yeah, I dunno. Even if you're a very responsible person with the best intentions... I remember (before becoming a motorcyclist) riding a neighbors 250cc dirt bike across a field, hit an unexpected bump and nearly got tossed off, my wrist locked down trying to hold on and the bike tried to take off and leave me, and that was only a 250. Shit happens when you're a novice, best that it happens slowly and at safe speeds until you've at least got the basic skills learnt.

    I suppose one could argue that modern electronics take a pile of the novice danger away, with anti-lock, anti-slip and anti-wheelie aids. But even without pulling a wheelie, you can still get yourself into a heap of trouble before you realize it.

    On the topic of dealers, I remember talking to a dealer who said he'd refused to sell a 16yr old a Hyabusa, the kid just went to a different dealer and killed himself with another one.
     
  8. marriedman

    marriedman New Member

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    I don't think there should be any legislation to prevent people from buying power bikes. Darwinism takes care of that. But I do believe that starting on a less powerful bike is of paramount importance. Just like PawnBoy said, shit happens when you are a novice and a 250 is a hell of a lot more forgiving than a 1000 anything. If one where to grab a handful of throttle on a Ninja 250, they will get hurt. Grab a handful of throttle on a VFR1200 and you're seriously hurt or dead.
     
  9. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    This is a shame. He entered a curve at high speed and lost it going across and off the road. Counter streering ring a bell? He didn't stand a chance at any speed hitting curves widthout that knowledge. And life goes on............
     
  10. duccmann

    duccmann Member

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    Well my thoughts are if you have the basic skills from first learning on a dirt bike your chances of survival on the streets are much higher. I've always given that advice since the 80's when friends expressed interest in street bikes.
    Think with me riding since 8 on minis and dirt bikes gave me all the skills needed when I purchased my first street bike in 84 --- Interceptor --- to survive with only two accidents, one wasn't paying attention to the road surface and hit gravel on my Duc and the other was alcohol induced--- lucky to have survived
    Got side tracked at work , so my point in all this is learned self contol with the right hand(except with dads playboys OOOH) at a very young age
     
  11. Alaskan

    Alaskan Member

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    And a pit bull shouldn't be a person's first dog neither!

    :)
     
  12. Arnzinator

    Arnzinator New Member

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    I remember the first time passing a car on my Busa. After a seven year hiatus from riding I convinced myself I could "handle" it. On two a lane highway traveling at about 65-70mph, I moved into the left lane and just rolled on the throttle. The time it took to get to triple digits seemed like the blink of an eye. I had to stuff the brakes to keep from rear ending a car in the left lane.

    And thats the trap

    A bike like a Busa, ZX14, Blackbird, & so on generate speed so effortlessly. To the inexperienced it can be difficult to accurately judge time & distance. You never really get a sensation that your traveling too fast. There's little difference between 40mph...80mph...120mph. Its all equally effortless.

    Just ask Wyle E. Coyote. ;-)

    32889CCC00000578-3508640-image-a-7_1458860706707.jpg
     
  13. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    Personally I hate the thought of more licensing control, but I firmly believe in a tiered license system. I started off with small bikes, 50 cc and 90 cc and moved up from there. You simply don't get the chance to make many mistakes when you start out on a superbike. And if you have your right hand wrapped around the throttle and you slide toward the rear under power, guess what happens to that right hand: it opens the throttle even more.

    Powerful bikes take more skill and self-control, 18 year old first time riders have very little of either. And knee-jerk reactionaries will go ballistic if the fatality rate for young riders went through the roof. So much for relying on Darwin.
     
  14. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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    I'm not clear on the exact topic of debate - are we talking about a motorcycle being the very first motorized vehicle a person is learning to operate at all or are we talking about the difference between sizes/types of motorcycles when a person is learning to ride a motorcycle for the very first time or something else?

    My very first bike was an 86 VFR. The only motorized two wheeled vehicles I had ridden prior to that were a friend's 50cc Yamahopper moped, another friend's home built, briggs and Stratton powered, minibike, and a friend of a friends' YSR50 - for about 3 minutes each. The things I had going for me were that I wasn't 16 (I was 22), had ridden bicycles since I was little little, had been driving a manual transmission car for many years, was fairly coordinated from many years of various athletics, had researched motorcycles and riding motorcycles for years before I actually got one, and although I was foolish, I wasn't Damn Foolish. If you know how two wheeled vehicles balance and steer, how manual transmissions work, and your feet can comfortably touch ground on both sides of a motorcycle, then I agree that your safety and control is primarily found in your throttle/clutch/brake operations.

    OTOH, I absolutely believe that size makes a difference - Especially if the rider is uncoordinated, inexperienced with two-wheeled vehicles, unfamiliar with manual transmissions, has never operated a motor vehicle of any type before, and/or has trouble balancing the bike (and/or is a natural Darwin award candidate to begin with).

    IME, I personally believe a large percentage of the drivers we have right now shouldn't be allowed to operate a 4 wheeled motor vehicle, much less a 2 wheeled one! Too clueless, too irresponsible, too clumsy/panicky, too ahole-ish/arrogant/egotistical, too fast too furious, take your pick!
     
  15. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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  16. Samuel

    Samuel Member

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  17. Riding a 2000

    Riding a 2000 Member

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    Yea, I'll have to disagree with the "It does not matter" concept as well.
    My first bike was a new CB350. Had it delivered to the parent's house, since my brother and I were both first-timers.
    The other option had been a used Bonneville 650.
    I was a senior in high school, and generally much more cautious than it seems many are today.
    I LEARNED on that Honda, and some of the lessons were rough. Yep, it was fast enough to hurt me, but on the
    Bonneville, I'd have been so much worse off. Like the time I revved a bit and my fingertips slipped off of the clutch lever.
    Almost went right off the back of the seat, as the bike tried to get out from under my butt.
    I have never spent any time at all in a hospital because of bikes or cars.
    That Bonneville, my life would have been different, almost certainly.

    Kids/novice riders of any age only *think* they know what they have signed up for when the get on a bike.
    True skill, and the ability to handle even moderate power or dicey situations can only come with education and experience.
    Expecting a greenie to actually be able to control themselves and a crotch rocket 600 or a liter bike is unrealistic.
     
  18. Mind_Surfer

    Mind_Surfer New Member

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    Size matters.
    Skill matters.
    Experience matters.
    Conditions matter.
    Mindset matters.
    Judgement matters.

    Success/Survival is the product of a complex & ever changing equation factoring in all the above, always in different quantities. Anyone can win, anyone can lose. Stack the deck as best you can.
     
  19. V4toTour

    V4toTour New Member

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    sure, with proper instruction from the beginning (and I'm not talking that BRC parking lot BS) any one could safely learn on a 1K. but seeing how this is reality, I'm gonna side with Mr. Pete on this one.
     
  20. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Member

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    Tiered licensing could be a good thing, imho.
    Do you see CBR1000RR's and Gixxers at a newbie riders class? :rolleyes:

    New young riders dead in 20 minutes is not a good headline for anyone who rides.
     
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