Possible VF500 purchase

Good to hear you are progressing.

 

A bit more progress. I had to buy a rear mudguard for it as the OE one had been worn through by an oversize rear tyre. I also bought some cheap adjustable levers for it as the OE were bent and bust. The Ebay rear mudguard was from a later F2 model and is subtlety different even though I think the part numbers are the same. It's where the fuel pump goes on the 84. HAd to buy lots of rubber boots for the brakes from CMSNL as the OEs were rotten. Life is getting in the way but I reckon I have everything now to make it roadworthy. I just need to drop the engine and decide whether to swap or repair.

https://goo.gl/photos/89kMMyZD32KKVbsT7

 

nice score on the fender,

 

The engine is out. I will now be able to hunt down that rattle.
https://goo.gl/photos/CaG6VmZ2SxNaP59x8

 

You have at one fairly damaged cam right? If there's a cratered divot in the rocker pad there, that'll be a sure source of noise. You should be able to check the check the tension of the cam chains by feeling them under the chain covers and rotating the engine with a 14mm wrench on the alternator bolt/flywheel. Remember to turn it COUNTER-clockwise, you'll feel the drag right away if you turn it the wrong way. That'll at least tell you whether the rattle is cam chain related. Best of luck Jeremy.

 

Yeah, I'll take the cams and cam chain tensioners out and see whats what. I've done this with two other engines so I'm a dab hand at it now. Maybe the valve springs too for fun. I find the whole exercise therapeutic tbh. I just wish the engine wasn't so covered in crud. I like to take my time but end up washing my hands more than I like. I haven't managed to get used to the latex gloves like you see the pros wearing on Youtube.

 

The latex ones are great in a hospital but suck in a garage. You want the nitrile type for working on bikes.
I bought a 1000 pairs for about £37... lol

 

Well the 3 out of 4 camshafts are fine (the rear exhaust has a few pits but not too bad), the valve stem heads are not pitted or deformed and the cam followers (rockers) are all OK. No excessive wear anywhere. So the noise must be camchain related. The tensioners look OK with no notches or marks on the slide rod. But the chains feel loose. On the other engines I have worked on the camchains felt tighter (or at least |I think that how I remembered them).

I looked at the springs in the camchain tensioners and they haven't taken a permanent set so there's nothing wrong with them. There is a rubber tube covering the spring and this had hardened and seemed to be preventing the spring from retracting but its hard to believe that could be the cause.

\Without a new camchain it is hard to determine if the chain is excessively worn but that is what it is looking like now. I am going to put it back together, fit it to the bike and run it for a while to see if a bit of use quietens it down. Very unlikely I know but you never know. In the meantime I can decide if I should repair or junk it. I can swap camchain tensioners from other engines too long term.

 

lets see some pics of those followers. you have to look very closely and the divot can be sometimes imperceptible but make a hugh racket.
With a pitted cam I bet that follower has worn the pad

 

Maybe but I just don't think so. I have seen pictures of worn followers that made noise but mine look nothing like them. I did spot what looked like wear debris on one of the followers but that could just be crap that has fallen in. The two pitted lobes were on the rear exhaust camshaft. They are not too bad and I have seen much worse. Pictures in one of the links above
I get the feeling from the bearing journals that whoever owned it before didn't use great oil. They are dark and look like they got hot.

Here are some pictures of the rear head and the followers in question. The engine is back together so can't get anymore for a while.

https://goo.gl/photos/mEsRBxpX2Bz12fSz8

 

Hey Jeremy, I know all about garage therapy, it works for me too. On my latest engine, I did cut out the plastic spring covers on the cam chain tensioners. Some guys believe they give full range of retraction that way. I don't know if that's really the case. I've tried to guess as why those are even there. I can only think that it's to lessen noise or vibration from the spring movement but I don't know. You might want to try it if your chains do actually feel loose or like you said try other used tensioners. The cams chains should feel fairly tight throughout a complete revolution by hand. There's not much you can do about stretched cam chains though. I think you could still buy new ones but that is pretty heavy labor having to take the engine completely apart. Another thing you can try is swap that back exhaust cam with a good spare one you might have but making sure to take the matching rockers with it placed in the same positions. Not the best solution because of the worn cam going into worn cam bearing surfaces but it could work for awhile. One more thing, it may just be lighting or the angle but in your first photo, your left rear rocker looks much more worn down (thickness wise) than your right rear. Good luck Jeremy.

 

I expect they are there to protect the spring from ham fisted mechanics like me. I did trim the rubber hose as it definitely did appear to be preventing the full travel of the tensioner. You never know, it might help a bit. When I put the tensioners back in they did not seem to be at their end of travel either, so there's hope it might quieten the motor down a bit. The oil was like treacle too, so fresh oil might assist.

I took the sump off and there was nothing untoward in there.

You have good eyesight, I never noticed that. It does look more worn in that picture. I will take the cams out again and reexamine the followers to be safe.

If it is worn camchains then I'll just junk the engine unless I feel really adventurous.

I compression tested the engine and got between 120 and 150 psi, which is the same as one of my good performing engines.

Edit: I took the cams out. It was just the lighting of the picture. Both followers are in the same condition and neither are dished or particularly worn.

 

I have posted a query on http://v4hondabbs.com if you want the full story. But to cut to the chase, I refitted the engine today and ran it. It's a shocker. Sounds bad. I am open to opinions but I reckon it'll be going in the skip.
https://goo.gl/photos/W3dNqTqNrCHd3Gwa6

 

Sorry you went through all that work, getting the engine out and then back isn't the most easy thing to do. Maybe it's just me but I can't hear anything at all? It's a silent movie!!

 

There should be sound. There is sound on my version. You have to click on the movie to get sound. You are just seeing the preview I think.

 

got it! I wasn't clicking!! just previewing!! sorry.

 

ok!! Were all the valves moving up and down freely as you rotated the engine when you checked it? that sounds very similar to what my engine sounded with a dropped valve, like there is a piston hitting something.... were you able check if all the valves had some clearance?? My guess is a stuck open valve that's hitting a piston and/or maybe broken valve spring, the tempo sounds too fast for it to be a cam related noise but I could be wrong about that. It could be that a valve head or piece of valve or piston broke off and is bouncing around in one of the cylinders... The valve stem would still be there and would still go up and down even if part of the head had broken off, you would immediately see it if you pulled the heads of course. It could also be that the cam chains are overly stretched allowing some contact between the valves and pistons OR maybe your valve timing alignment was slightly off? Just sounds like a valve hitting a piston me.

 

Yes, pretty sure all the valves were moving. I checked the clearances on them all too. I also did a compression test so there's no dropped valve.
I agree it does sound like something is being hit but I treble checked the timing when I put it together I have done it before a number of times so i'm confident the timing is right.
I know nothing about the engine so its possible a valve is sticking because it has been bent. The engine was hard to start too.

 

If my timing was off, it would only be off by a tooth at most assuming I did it wrong. I don't think a being a tooth off would be enough for a collision. I do agree it sounds like a piston colliding with with something. I'll leave it a while and think about it. If it was hitting a valve a compression test would show low results. As I said it was hard to start which is consistent with low compression.

 

the loud rattle reminded very much of my recent tragic engine death with the dropped valve, it was lodged up in the one of the exhaust valve openings getting hit there until I stopped the engine, my engine never quit, instead it rev'd much higher than normal and never smoked either but if you had decent compression, the valves were probably seating ok, I guess overly stretched cam chains then allowing the valves to touch the pistons as you rev it a little?? in any case, if that's it the damage is done with at least one valve being severely beaten. I don't think it's something you'd be able to figure out without removing the heads even just for the sake of curiosity. the great thing is that you have at least two perfectly good engines just waiting....