Any local Indianapolis guys willing to help troubleshoot?

Ive been defeated trying to troubleshoot my bike, anyone out there local to Indy thats able and willing to come take a stab at it? Case of beer or two provided.

 

Not in your area but what defeated you?

 

Gator here is his thread:

http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/50635-Issue-Cold-Start-and-Idle-rough

 

Thanks I read it. A lot of trouble shooting.

 

Its been a roller-coaster spanning many things. Here is the thread, but in a nutshell cold start is really rough, at about 1000-900rpm, once its warm it still idles at about 1000rpm, the idle adjuster doesn't adjust the idle, but seems to help correct mix. About the only way to start it is to screw the idle adjuster all the way in (well above the wax valve) then back it off some once its warm. Its super rich. When riding it, it just boggs down under 2500 (to the point it almost dies), once it hits 2500 it rides really nice. It does seems to act and ride really nice right when the temp is at 110ish degrees f , +-20 and its back to being shitty.

1. had the injectors rebuilt, still had concerns so i ended up buying a throttle body assembly off a 'running' bike, same issues (not great troubleshooting as this new one COULD be bad too, but i would take the bed its not since the issue has remained)
2. went through the ect, iat, map, tps and everything checks out, no FI error code lights
3. gone through grounds and wire connectors and verified everything looks good, no melting or burnt wires, installed VFRNess on top just because
4. found that the regulator/stator were on their way out, but even removing them from the equation and running the bike off a battery charger the issue persisted. Regulator and Stator replaced
5. Swapped out the exhaust to ensure the CAT was not clogged causing back-pressure issues
6. Checked clearance on non v-tec valves and there were all fine
7. Checked timing on the cam markings and it checked out


Update: took me longer to post, thanks for posting it knight

 

Just bumping this back up before I call the dealer again


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Hey jsjamboree, I'm about two hours south of you in Washington. I was just reading through all the previous thread, and had a thought. I know that most all "programmers", just like the PC usually physically reflash the fuel map in the ECM. So with that in mind, even unplugging the PC would still leave the same fuel map flashed into the ECU. Have you tried going back to the OE fuel map and see if anything changes?? Maybe someone else that has dealt with them more can chime in?? And I don't think anyone has asked, but are the spark plugs correct for your model?? Type and heat range changes in the spark plug can affect its ability to burn the fuel correctly.

 

Another huge thought that just crossed my mind that you haven't tried... Pull the catalytic converter out of the system and start it and see if you have any changes. Although it sounds to be a very rare issue, a clogged exhaust system would produce nearly all your major symptoms.... bad power, wet plugs, low vacuum. If the previous owner ran a high zinc oil in the motor, this could very well cause a clogged converter, as the zinc content will start to cake to the front of the honeycomb catalyst and seal the exhaust off.

 

Im 99.9% sure thats not how the PC works, at least not the PC3 on this gen. Its a piggy back system thats plugged in right before the fuel injectors. It simply intercepts the signal from the ECU and moves the fuel + and -. So, a 0 map allows the signal to go through untouched, where a map with -10 or +10 increases or decreases the fuel by that amount of units. There isn't a 'stock' map, just a 0 map. Maybe this is different for newer bikes. Im going to reach out to see if someone has an ECU that I can borrow and swap in w/o the PC and see what happens there.

Thats something very new. I'll take it off over the weekend and see what it looks like.

 

If I was a bit closer or going that direction any time soon, I would be more than happy to bring the ECU from mine along, but I don't get the chance to make that trip north very often.

 

Wow good one! I don't have a converter so I never thought that's where the vacuum problem could lie. Those that do have one tend to remove it, so it might drop from their radar as well!

Some obvious hints would be the converter discolored from overheating, it appears warped, and the exhaust would smell like sulfur. I don't know, can they get red hot or no?

I think his bike was running fine previously, so I wonder if it was more recent oil changes that caused this.

JASO MA2 rated oil is certified for catalytic converters. There may be some JASO MA1 oils around that are good for wet clutches but which can harm catalytic converters (Shell Rotella T?).

 

If I head to Muncie for the IRCHA Jamboree in August and you still need help, I'll be sure to check in with you.

 

I thought PC's were down stream from the ecu.

 

They tap inline at the injector harness.


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I think (please correct me!) the Power Commander ii was upstream from the ECU and fed different sensor information to the ECU.

The PC iii system changed to being downstream from the ECU, and thus it modifies the ECU signal. So the OP must have a PCiii or V.


Regarding reflashes of the ECU:

I did some reading and it appears that today the DynoJet Harley products do flash the Harley ECU.

I do not think the 5th gen was ever flashed aftermarket (?)

Here was a thread on Guhl doing the 6th gen flash, after they did the 7th gen. I did not read it to see how the story ended.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/77794-ecu-reflash-for-the-06-09-vfr800/

Seems that the available tuning methods depend on which year of which model bike one owns, and the answer can be any of the above.

 

I wasn't sure how the PC worked on these bikes, as I do not have one for mine yet and I'm not familiar with them. I figured we'd have some seasoned veterans that would know the correct answer. I also just noticed from the original post that it had the O2 deleted..... do they make a resistor plug to take place of the O2 sensor, or does the PC take care of that issue??

 

Caveat: I am definitely not seasoned as I only went through this in recent years with my VFR800. And Dynojet still confuses me greatly. I know just enough to be dangerous.

The PCiii and PCV come with resistor plugs.

The web site is somewhat confusing but good to browse to get up to speed. You'll see when you plug in your year bike that you have the choice of PCiii or V.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/powercommander.aspx?mk=19&mdl=204&yr=882

The newer PCV is slightly smaller and also supports a unit to help you tune the bike. Either unit should work great with a stock map.

I would not necessarily recommend the additional hardware, as it is expensive on top of the PC. The stock maps are quite good, they already dyno'd very similar bikes to generate them. But just FYI, the extra units that allow you to do tuning are the Autotune and Wideband 2. The WB 2 is a newer version. I have no idea why they sell both today. These comes with their own O2 sensor for tuning feedback. (This is the most confusing company I've ever seen.)

There is a new PCV for the 2014 bikes, so if you get a V you must get the correct part for your bike. The new one is not backward compatible with older bikes, so depending on where you buy, verify the part number.

 

So, I found someone selling a full stock exhaust and a complete ebay fairing kit for $100, said what the hell for that price I should be able to make my money back. The fairing are the candy red so they dont match, but it came with a windscreen and the seat cowl and those two things alone make it worth it. I'll either paint the farings white or something and replace them all, or just sell them for what I have into it.

The CAT on the 6th gen is really weird, the rear and front exhausts pair up, then both come into the CAT. So, there are two inlets and one outlet on it. You really cant remove it without getting a custom jobber built that you could weld on after cutting the CAT off. So, I had to replace the entire thing (see above). After doing so, it made no difference. The CAT or exhaust in general, is not the issue.