Bike Battery DED

Discussion in '6th Generation 2002-2013' started by psjbeisler, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. psjbeisler

    psjbeisler New Member

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    Before I go buying and replacing parts I figured I'd ask and see what kind of feedback I get.
    I am Electrical savvy and own a voltmeter to test what is necessary but,

    I have a 2002 and have been having battery issues. I had 1 die, replaced it with a known good one my buddy had and got the same thing.
    I can start the bike and start riding but it does not charge which leads me to the R/R or Stator.

    I've noticed my N light can barely be seen and then I know i'm f*@#$ed and I let it idle and it just died.
    My clocks reset, my fuel pump doesnt even activate... DED DED, until i throw it on the charger again.

    So my question, is whats the best way to go about testing or diagnosing both so i dont get stranded and can ride in confidence again and not replace parts for the sake of replacing parts.
    Thanks in advance, you guys are awesome.
     
  2. rjgti

    rjgti New Member

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    look for the drill on this site
     
  3. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Obviously you haven't read the millions and millions of post in here detailing the fact that Honda fitted crap connectors on these bikes that fail and take out the entire charging system. Aftermarket rotor/stator and R/R suppliers make a very tidy living out of them because of this. As said do a search for "the Drill" and take note of post #9 and report your findings back here for further advice.
     
  4. psjbeisler

    psjbeisler New Member

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    *coughs*

    I see i'm making friends though... will post results
     
  5. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    So if you had spent a bit more time here you may have avoided the situation you are now in (probably not because nobody listens till it becomes their problem) and when you do fix it, solder and heatshrink the stator/R/R wires
     
  6. Laker

    Laker New Member

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    It's going to be ok. Check out some threads on here, there are many. Also see roadstercycle.com when you figure out whats up. The guys on this site are the best and will get you going on the right path... And you'll be riding through those sweet hills down there again...Laker
     
  7. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    The reason we get a bit tied of this problem is that it comes up usually three times a week and we go through all the same deal with it, time and time again.
     
  8. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    I'm not tech savvy enough to do this from my phone, which I'm on now. C'mon Norm - just give him the link. Its not listed as "the drill" in the thread title, so you do have to search for it.

    Its easier to post the link than tell everyone to look for it. Now if they don't listen, and refuse to solder the wires, THEN they are officially dumbasses and wasting time.

    I'm on your side, bud.
     
  9. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  10. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Have you owned this bike for a while? Have you made any changes at all recently? How many miles are on it?

    There are some owners here with 50k or 70k miles without every having an issue with the OEM parts. For your benefit, I want to explain that some electrical parts are the victims and not the cause of the problem. Here are some scenarios to illustrate what can happen:

    1) There is a short or increased current draw on the bike. Maybe someone upgraded the suspension and pinched wires when re-routing them. Maybe there is a flaw such as the brake light switch that shorts against the handlebar. Maybe you added warming equipment and it is now drawing more power than the bike was designed to provide. Maybe you added LED lights. Now the bike has extra power that it cannot dissipate.

    2) The short or draw kills the battery. You do not notice until 100 miles later. But all along the ride the regulator tries to charge the battery and is flowing maximum current. It can never charge the battery, and the system is extremely strained.

    3) The stator windings turn black because it is tasked to provide maximum current for a long period of time

    4) The regulator/rectifier melts

    5) Some of the wiring or connections melt.

    The R/R may be a victim and not necessarily a cause. Also, note the action/reaction above. This means that one by one, you must put new parts in place, and continue with due diligence to identify each problem down the line. Many motorcyclists think, "If I plug in this new part (R/R, fuel computer, etc.) it will fix everything." However, there is no magic part. It is a system where everything must be in balance.

    Most likely you need a battery and regulator. You can inspect the stator for burnt wiring or places where the insulation has burned off. If it appears good you can do the appropriate impedance tests across the coils, hook it all up, and test the voltage output on the stator side. Replace if necessary. Then, any melted or blackened connectors or wiring should be fixed.

    With the bike off put an ammeter between the negative cable and negative battery terminal. Start at a high setting, then move it down slowly until you get a valid reading. The maximum load with no accessories on is 3 mA or .003 A. Any more and you have a short. Pull fuses until the current drops. You identified the circuit. Now you must inspect the wiring and devices all along the circuit to identify the problem.

    Note if there is a short, immediately remove the new battery and use a smart charger to keep it fully charged. A fully drained battery takes away a good portion of its life. Unfortunately many of us discover that the battery was not the issue, then we go through multiple new batteries. You are not alone.

    The drill will give you lots of detail. I just saw the hammering above and flashed back to buying my bike last year, when I knew absolutely nothing, but encountered similar problems. My mechanic gave me advice on why this stuff happens, and I found it invaluable.

    The motorcycle electrical system is finely balanced. When one small thing goes out of balance, it causes havoc. It is not robust like a car's system. It requires proactive inspections and care. Now is the time for you to clean each and every switch and connection on the bike. They are all corroded from 12 years of age. Thus they run hot and are at risk for burning out the major charging components. While people with cars and bikes tend to be "reactive", we cannot be. A problem can strand us, or get us killed. Thus, I suggest you be proactive about refreshing the electrical system.

    Some people install a voltmeter so they can catch the very first sign of a spike or under-voltage. Otherwise you may periodically use a voltmeter to check the battery and voltage output.

    Once you have refreshed the electrical system, and keep an eye on the basics, it most likely will give you many more years and miles of problem-free riding.
     
  11. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    Roadster Cycle is an excellent solution btw,
     
  12. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    I agreed when The Prince of Darkness was a Knight of the round table.
     
  13. psjbeisler

    psjbeisler New Member

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    I got to rip into it finally and found my connector melted

    IMG_20160224_203718.jpg

    As stated in http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39277-How-to-fix-common-regulator-Stator-failures
    "Some soldered these 3 yellow wires directly to regulator but it does not solve the old style regulator which is prone to overheat"
    So I ordered a FH020AA and will test after to see if I have to dig into the stator yet, i will eventually i guess, but would rather not now.
    Also plan on adding a volt meter so i can catch power issues early as that is the only issue ive had to far and will still put me down if im out.
     
  14. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    I would be careful about putting a new rec/reg on without doing the drill,this will tell you if the stator is bad. Not sure if it would but if the stator is bad it might take the new rec/reg out again, I wouldn't take the chance
     
  15. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    No shit! Never saw that before. I wonder what could cause that? Ask Norm he should know..................
     
  16. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Grey, if you take a look he first started complaining about this problem on the 10th Feb 2015, 12 months ago, so it has really stood up well
     
  17. ragincanadian

    ragincanadian New Member

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    That looks like it was arcing through the connector to ground... but at the thickest and least likely place to be susceptible to it.

    Are there any arc traces on the frame or bracket holding the connector?
     
  18. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    Didn't know that. It makes all the worst. Should of just soldered the wires together then and be done with it. 1hr job at the most.?
     
  19. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Rain, it has nothing to do with shorting to ground, the connector due to the constant heat cycles going through it, starts making poor contact due to oxidation/weakening of the spade connectors due to the heat etc so the contact gets slowly worse, resistance builds up and this creates more heat and eventually the heat gets hot enough to melt the connector, then the wires get to touch each other and then it is good night nurse, stator/rec/reg trashed and you roll to a stop
     
  20. psjbeisler

    psjbeisler New Member

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    Turns out the R/R i got was a knock off so its going back. I tested the resistance and voltage across the stator and it was fine. I soldered the OEM R/R back in to place and checked to make sure it still charged ~14v after fully charging the battery ~12v, which it did. At this point i think i just have a bad battery. with a full charge and a load on it, it just dies. So i guess im off to get a new battery, return the cheap R/R and see if i can keep a 12v charge...
     
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