No spark @ any cyl on 1986, Need help!!!

I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out why I don't have any spark. I have done a variety of tests to this bike but here's how it all started. I was riding to camp one weekend and got about 45 min into the trip and the bike just stalled on me like it lost all spark. I clutched it and coasted for a little while, popped the clutch, it jump started and seemed like nothing was wrong. About 40 minutes later it did it very intermittently again but then didn't do it again for the final 10 minutes of the ride. At the end ot the weekend, riding it home (I didn't ride it that whole weekend) at 45 minutes into the trip it quit on me again. I stopped, waited a couple of minutes and it started. Made it about 2 miles and it quit again. This time I waited about 20 minutes along the road before it would start again. I finally arranged for a friend to pick me up while I waited in the median where it left me stranded, but when he got there and I hit the starter, it fired up again.

The problem seemed temperature related to me, that I was loosing continuity somewhere when things heated up. I metered my crank pulse generator and it seemed a little funky, so replaced it and it didn't solve the problem. I then found that the r/r was shorted out internally and draining my battery, so I replaced it and my battery, and went for a ride, seemed fine, but as soon as I got back, I now have no spark at all. I'm thinking my CDI crapped out, but I don't want to spend big bucks on a guess. Anyone have any ideas?

 

As you say it sounds temperature related just like the regulator rectifier failures tend to start. The CDI does seem suspect but you should eliminate all other possible sources before you drop the credit card on the table. I have never owned an 86 model so please forgive the vagueness of my advice! I would investigate and eliminate any switch that has the potential to interrupt the spark, including the sidestand switch, handlebar switches (clutch and kill switch) and even the neutral safety switch. These are simple mechanical switches that can be defeated to eliminate the possibility of them causing the problem. When all else fails see if you can beg borrow or steal a CDI unit and try it out.

Good luck!

 

I checked all of the switches already to make sure it wasn't one of those, but they are all operating properly. So doesn't seem to be one of those. I wonder where I could find another CDI to try. I was looking on Ebay in hopes of finding one cheap, but the cheapest so far was $130, still an expensive gamble.

 

Just made a discovery. I was checking some things and noticed that even after replacing the r/r, I still had a short in that circuitry. I cut the wires to the stator and all of a sudden had spark and the bike fired up. Would a bad stator be the actual cause of no spark, that is if it was shorted to ground?? That's what I'm thinking right now.

 

YES, if you are still questioning the CDI after taking care of the stator check the posts in the first & second gen tabs some one recently posted they had one for sale along w/ some other parts price was reasonable. Vman would have some perspective on the stator I know he had one short out. I just picked up a factory manual so if you have any specific questions or need procedures don't hesitate to ask.

 

After cutting those stator wires and thinking I found it, I was wrong. Went back out to try it again and no spark. This is what I've got, stator wires cut from r/r and everything else in tact. And I have absolutely no spark, but when I meter the voltage at the plug wire, I have 12V when I turn the key on. I'm lost, I need help for sure.

 

From your description, it still sounds like a switch. The stator provides elcritcal current to charge the battery. When you start the bike, everything runs off the battery. That's why when you have a bad r/r or stator, it kills the battery. If it is not the kill switch on the throttle housing, check to make sure you have proper voltage at the CDI box. If you have not done so already, check ALL the ground points. One loose, corroded, or damaged wire will wreak havoc on trouble shooting this issue and could possibly give you the symptoms you describe. check this also, when you have a no spark condition, look to see if you have any other electircal activity, such as headlights and turn signals. If not, it may be the ignition switch itself causeing the problem or a wire connected to it. Hope this helps, keep us up to date. :thumb:

 

I have power to everything, including 12V to the plug wires when the key is turned on. I have checked all of the grounds, connections associated with this circuit. The only thing I don't have is spark consistently. I have it very intermittently, meaning once a day maybe for the last 4 days.

 

Not sure exactly what is going on. Went out after dinner, out of curiousity, have had the battery on charge, holding at about 13.5V. I also have the 3 wires to the stator cut right now, and the bike fired up. My question is, is the CDI sensitive to voltage and w/o the stator plugged in and operational, does it have to have a certain amount of voltage, or is mine just to the point where it is only going to operate at the highest charge my battery can handle? I know I'm definitely stumped and very frustrated with this one.

 

The bike will run without the stator and the r/r connected. As it is running off of the charge the battery has. I am not sure if the CDI is voltage sensitive or not.

 

Disconnect the spark unit couplers, check for loose corroded terminals

Check resistance from harness side of the coupler:
Primary Ignition coils:
No.1 - blu/blk - blk/wht =2.6-3.2 ohms
No.2 - yel/wht - blk/wht = 2.6 - 3.2 ohms
No.3 - Red/blu - blk/wht = 2.6 - 3.2 ohms
No.4 - red/yel - blk/wht = 2.6 - 3.2 ohms

These are the wires that go to the small terminals on the coils

Check secondary Ign coils:

Check from the terminal on each coil that the blk/wht wire goes to to the plug cap connection.

Spec is: 15,000 to 21,000 ohms or 15 to 21 Kilo ohms
* If one fails to fall w/i spec remove plug wire from @ coil & check again w/o plug wire attached this will let you know if plug wires are bad vs. coil.

Check pulse generator:

-Remove RH side cover
-Disconnect pulse gen coupler
-Measure resistance between the yellow & yellow/wht terminals; also between the blue & wht/blue terminals

spec is: 450-550 ohms

if out of spec replace the pulse generator

Check cam pulse generator(1986 only)

- Remove RH side cover
- Disconnected cam pulse gen coupler
- measure resistance between terminals(wht/blk - yel/blk)

Spec is 400-500 ohms

if out of spec replace the cam pulse generator

Check for battery volatge @ spark module, harness side of coupler

Ignition on, stop switch in run position

Blk/wht wire to ground should show battery voltage.


IF ALL ITEMS CHECK OK REPLACE THE SPARK MODULE(CDI)

 

Well......any luck yet?

 

I borrowed a good fluke meter from work today and plan to run all of my tests again. The other night, thinking the stator was bad, I pulled the side cover and removed and metered it, and it metered good. When checking the 3 wires for continuity to ground, the all checked negative. However, when I checked the red/white wires from the regulator for continuity to ground, I had some activity there. My question now is, if I have one of those wires that is a little flakey, and maybe sometimes shorting to ground, will that cause my loss of spark, or do I still maybe have a CDI problem? That's what I don't know right now. Anyhow, like I said, more tests tonight, we'll see what happens.

 

I would run though all the tests I posted the other day, I copied these all from the Honda Service manual in the section that covers no/weak spark. Any time you have a ECU controlled system shorts in seemingly unrelated components can cause an ECU to "wig out" & do something strange. I had a semi that would just die for no apparent reason a few years back. Couldn't find anything wrong after several days of diagnostics; was leaning over the tire w/ the engine running took a hammer handle & tapped the ECU out of frustration & it died. The ECU had an internal, intermittent short that I never would have found otherwise.

 

I just discovered something that made me sick to my stomach. I was metering the resistance between leads on the primary side of the coils. They seemed to check fine, then I decided to see if any of those leads had continuity to ground (dark green wire), they did, all of them. Unless I'm thinking wrong, there should be no continuity there. Then, on the CDI side of the connector, I metered the same wires to find continuity to the dark green wire from all of those coil wires. Unless I'm backwards, what I have found here is a short somewhere in the wiring harness that has maybe whacked my CDI also. If that's the case, I would be further off rewiring the entire bike and buying all new electrical components. Please, someone tell me I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong.

 

I'll look over the wiring diagrams when I get home in a few hours, don't get to excited just yet.

 

Ended up working a few extra hours; just to be certain you are checking this with the wires disconnected @ the spark unit & the primary wires disconnected @ each coil? If your checking from the spark unit connector w/ the coils connected there will be a path to ground through the coils. You will also get a path to ground on the blk/wht wire with the run/kill switch is in the run position as it passes thru the fuel cut relay & fuel pump. I would not be concerned w/ your continuity to ground on the coil circiuts, unless it still shows up w/ the spark unit disconnected, the coil wires disconnected & the run/kill switch in the kill position.

Just a word of advise, don't look for problems that may or may not exist until you've went through the whole trouble tree. Easiest way to sabotage yourself is to convince yourself there is a problem by doing a test that wasn't indicated & assuming there is a problem w/o completeing the trouble tree. So complete the trouble tree, write everything down then look @ the big picture & see what you come up with.

A side note of sorts, I have heard of people having problems w/ the pulse generators that would act similar to what you are experiencing. I'm assuming it is a Hall Effect type of set up. Also not 100% on exactly what the cam pulser does and why it is only on the 86' model.

 

I ran all of the tests tonight. Here's what I got:

Primary coil wires:

L/BK-BK/WH ---- 3.2 OHMS
Y/WH-BK/WH ----3.2 OHMS
R/BL-BK/WH ---- 3.1 OHMS
R/Y-BK/WH ---- 3.4 OHMS

The one is a little out of spec, but nothing that would alarm me. I didn't check the secondary side. I wasn't super concerned about that.

Pulse gen:

Y-Y/WH ---- 508 OHMS
BL-BL/WH -- 524 OHMS

Cam Pulse gem:

WH/BK-Y/BK --- 473 OHMS


I also checked battery voltage to be 12V and BK/WH wire @ CDI to be 11.51V, close enough.

I also checked, b/c I know I have a short in the system somewhere. Currently I have the R/R disconnected (oh, btw, I checked the r/r & stator for continuity, and they both checked good), the CDI disconnected, and I was still getting a voltage leak. I disconnected the plug that hooks to the starter relay and the leak went away. 4 wires go into that, R/WH which goes to Regulator/rectifier, Red, which goes to ignition switch, Y/R which goes to starter switch, and G/R which goes to clutch switch and silicon rectifier. I metered each of these for a path to ground, and the Y/R and G/R showed continuity. However when I also unplugged the plug in the front that the red wire goes to the ignition, I lost my leak there too. I think that means I may have a short in the piece of red that goes from that plug to the ignition. I don't know if I may have a short in the other two wires also. Let me know what you guys think.

 

W/O having the diagram in front of me to follow along, I'd say run a new wire for the one that you are suspect of & recheck.

Also by test results I'd say your spark unit could be the source of you problems.

 

Link to the post that had the spark unit for sale, its for a 700 but check & see if the part # is the same.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/buying-selling/4744-misc-86-vfr-700-parts.html