1986 vfr750 wont crank please help, at a loss

Alright, so about a month ago I dropped my vfr on some tracks at 15 mph riding home from work. Busted open the clutch cover and some other parts (Right fairing/mirror/bar end) were scuffed/broken. I parked it in my work parking lot and picked it up the next morning. Did bodywork/replaced the clutch cover and finally got ready to start it and all I got was a click at the solenoid. Tried jumping the starter directly and nothing happened but hot jumper cables/sparks. Replaced the battery, same results. Pulled the starter, I can rotate it by hand (easily) and it spun fine when I gave it juice on the battery. I put the starter back in, refilled the bike with oil, got ready to start it. Same result. Pulled the plugs today to see if it had vapor lock or something (at this point I am getting beyond my knowledge of troubleshooting a non-cranking bike) and nothing changed. I can manually turn over the motor. It is relatively difficult to turn but not excessively. I never manually turned it over before the incident though so I have nothing to compare it to. I have checked along the starter hot wire and it seems unbroken/pinched. When I had the starter out I checked my voltage to the starter hot wire and I got ~12v. When I put the starter back in and checked I got ~5v. I am at a loss as to what is wrong with it. I have tried push starting it (which I have done in the past, never seemed too difficult) and the tire wouldn't grab, although it has been nearly freezing for a couple weeks now and that may be why. Any insight is welcomed. I am at a loss at this point. I have looked around and haven't found too much relevant info. Save me :blue:

 

Why would you have push started it previously, any reason? What gear are you in when pushing it? Which hot wire are you getting 5 volts at. Pull the plugs, put it in gear and try pushing it

 

I had to push start it due to a dead battery on the side of the highway when my fuel pump failed shortly after getting it. The pump would cut out when it got hot, id let it cool off and go a couple miles until it did it again, trying to limp it home (like 8 miles). This was last summer IIRC. I believe at that time I push started it in first. I tried first and second the other day. The plugs are currently pulled but we are in a thunderstorm atm so I dont think pushing it will achieve much. Ill try once it dries out to see if the tire will grab now. As far as which wire, that is at the starter connection. The only wire going to the starter on my bike, from the starter solenoid, under the battery box and along the bottom right of the engine to the starter.

 

Irrelevant info/rambling about the bike:

This bike was badly abused prior to my getting it. It was 3 shades of white with cracked fairings, registered as a purple bike. Front fairings are from vfrchuck or whatever, I forgot his name but he used to sell his fairings on this website, tail and seat have junkyard markings on the bottom (year/model/etc). Airbox is drilled and it has what looks like a yoshi 4-1 with a termignoni pipe welded on in place of the yoshi pipe. It barely ran at first and all brakes were seized, but it ran pretty good prior to my dropping it. Bought it to replace my 84 cb700sc as a daily beater commuter/project (700s started to burn a bit of oil at 85000 miles and I decided I wanted more fairings for winter commuting). I did basic bodywork and painted it all one color and repainted the wheels when I got new tires a couple months ago. Next on the list (if I can get it running again) is to pull the exhaust and clean it up, repaint it. I found that the stock mirrors from my fz-09 fit very well and look pretty decent on it even. If anyone is interested I can post a picture as they're a good, clean looking replacement for broken stock mirrors.

 

Ok so you are telling me you have 5 volts at the heavy wire at the starter motor, when is this when you push the start button?

 

Correct, when trying to start the bike with the start button I get roughly 5 Volts at the starter, on the heavy wire that runs to the starter.

 

Ok so there is a severe problem there somewhere, disconnect the wire at the starter and try again and see what volts are there now, should get 12v. I'm not sure what volts would drop to if the starter can't crank the motor because it is locked up, but it could drop that far I guess. Just make sure all the battery connections are good, battery to earth, battery to solonoid, solonoid to starter motor, any one of these things could be the problem. If this all checks out, with the plugs out see if the starter will spin the motor over, if not, try the push method to see if the motor will turn

 

Last night I triple checked my voltages, confirming 12v on the starter wire with it off of the starter and like 4.8 with it on the starter. I also looked over my wires again, the starter hot wire looks fine as does the ground (short wire from the battery to the frame). The starter still had no effect with the plugs pulled. I got it into 5th or 6th and tried to rotate the rear wheel to no avail (The bike wanted to come off the stand rather than rotate the back wheel). I can still rotate the engine at the flywheel with a 17mm socket. I have put a screwdriver through the spark plug hole to verify that one piston was moving. I think today ill verify that all 4 are? I mean it shouldn't rotate without a grinding sound or something if something actually broke (i figure) but I am at a loss. It rotates all the way through the timing cycle but apparently is too tough to rotate? I rotated it in gear and the rear wheel still spins. The garage reeked of gas last night, but I did some extensive cleaning out there last night, as I was not sure if it was coming from the oil or the little bit of gas I spilled taking off the tank. Would gas in the oil, if that is the case, shed any light on the issue? I am aware at this point I may have internal issues and, if the engine is dead as it sits, I am not afraid of learning how to disassemble/reassemble it, if anyone has any insight or direction please share it.

 

You either have a bad battery, fails under a real load or your starter is bad. There are bushings in the starter that get worn. The starter will free wheel on the bench. Once back in when a load is put on it it will cock from worn bushings and jam or short.

One other could be the solenoid itself. There are brass contacts inside. If they get burnt there won't pass enough current for the starter. Check voltage at the solenoid contact/cable from the battery when you hit the start button. Is it 12v or 5v roughly? Check the other side going to starter. ?

 

what grey said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

You are not listening, take the bike off the stand and try pushing it in top gear with the plugs out and it skids the rear wheel, the motor is locked up,or partially locked up for some reason. If the motor turns then move back to the low volt problem . Talking about fuel smells and other things is just wasting time

 

I personally think it's time to take the clutch cover back off and double check everything. Impact hard enough to bust cover could have affected some things in the starter clutch area. Also, sometimes the pin that locates the gear between the starter and the starter clutch can get "misplaced", allowing the gear to rotate down out of position. Just seems too coincidental that this started right after crashing and replacing that cover.

 

I'm just trying to give any possibly related information Norm, I am listening. I told you we are having storms and floods here, I am not going to push it and get it to grab with inches of rain on the road. I really appreciate the help but you don't have to be an ass about it. I will attempt it when it is dry out. Possibly today, if there aren't more showers.

Yea I was planning on pulling the cover back off today captain 80s. I wanted to double check everything in there before I pulled the starter again to check the busing like grey said. Thank you for the info on that pin, I didn't check the location of it. The clutch cover, I believe, only broke because it was already pretty badly scraped up in the exact location I landed on.

 

Oh I know what pin you mean now that I think about it captian. I placed it back in the socket when I put the cover on.

 

Your location is "PNW" and you mentioned storms and floods. Where do you live? I'm a little north of Seattle.

 

I'm in vancouver. We are finally drying out today I think. How bad was it up there?

 

On that pin, it is always best to locate it on the engine side so you know the gear is indexed correctly and can't rotate out position during installation. I think it is technically possible the gear can rotate down in a position that the cover (with the pin) can still be installed. I say this, because I just put a new clutch and rebuilt the starter in one of my 86's a couple months back, and I remember it taking a little while getting that gear back in the right spot so the pin could be installed (on the engine side).

 

Pretty damn soggy and windy. We had a lull on Wed, so I got out on a bike that evening for a bit and met some friends down in Edmonds.

 

Yea I got the pin seated on the engine side. But I'll pull it today anyways and verify shit

 

You can then hand crank the engine with the center bolt of the starter clutch and listen and watch for issues.