Scan 'em if you got 'em - VF500F Head Gasket Patterns

Thanks Jamie, I didn't think you were still around man, I've seen dozens of your posts but nothing in the last few years. I have a bunch of head gaskets and the pattern is consistent with the ones I ripped off the heads, they're the older non-blocked 84 versions, the material looks nice and new though. However, these that I plan to use are both rear versions with the little loop on the top right, I just plan to cut that off on the front head after I get it installed, any advice on the reassembly? I've done cars before but this is my first bike head project. Thanks man.

 

I have a question for you Jamie if you have time. I found one valve with very slight pitting and one with a little bit of mushrooming starting. Both are on the front head. Have you left slightly damaged valves in use? I can get some, they're not cheap but there are still few places that carry em. Of course, I don't know what'll happen to the guide of the mushroomed valve when I pull it because it's stuck in there but the guide feels tight (not loose). Also, cms in Holland also has the valve springs. Would you replace valves with only a tiny bit of pitting and change the springs? The damage could have occurred because the last valve adjustment wasn't done right. I've had two so far. One at 500 miles and the other at 7500 miles. The bike now has 13,500. It's an 84 and ran perfectly when I took it apart because of small head gasket leak. Any comments or advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

 

Never use valves that look anything but new. The concern is once pitting starts the damage is done and it is only a matter of time, regardless of new springs or not.

Of course, this is my opinion because I would never try it. I don't know for sure what would happen if you tried.

 

Are you sure CMSNL have the springs? I tried to order some a few years ago and they bounced the order. They did have a few. I went down the spare engine route instead as it was a lot cheaper.

 

thanks man, I guess I won't know until they cancel my order or I get them in hand. We shall see. I've already spent more than the bike fully restored is worth but I'm not planning on ever selling it since I've had it most of my life, I'm just trying to keep it alive as long as possible.

 

the CMS in the Netherlands valve springs are invoiced, they weren't exactly cheap with the $25 shipping to boot but at 7 and 5.50 (euros about 1.10 per dollar) for outer and inner respectively, it wasn't that bad. I won't celebrate until I have em in my hot little hand though. Since I'm doing all this myself, I figure the parts costs equal only about 3 or 4 hours of labor costs somewhere who would be willing to even try it. I found another cheaper place for the two new exhaust valves and one new intake valve too. Valves are still pretty readily available, it's just that the exhaust are twice as expensive (about $35) as the intake (about $18). Supply and demand here I guess but who knows. Has anyone ever used 86 valve springs on an 84/85 head? I have a few spare 86 springs but they carry a different part number along with the intake valves, stiffer maybe? The strange thing is that the exhaust valves are the same part for both 84/85 as 86. Does anyone know?

 

I have a UPS tracking number and the springs are now passing through Germany... I ordered a whole set and they still show as fully available for 84/85 if anyone is in dire need. The whole set for $220 plus $27 shipping... certainly not cheap but if it prevents a valve from dropping and ruining my engine and costing me MANY MORE hours of my time, then it's well worth it to me indeed.

 

I got the springs in, CMS NL had em. There are still few out there if you really need em. Even with a real valve spring compressor, getting those things on isn't too easy, those dang little retaining clips keep popping off or getting moved before they set. Any tips out there? The first few were pretty frustrating and I just stopped after getting 3 valves done because I started thinking about throwing the whole head out the window or something, hopefully the rest will be easier.

 

I'm determined not to be another person in one of these threads that's on the verge of completing their project and is never heard from again. I hate that! So I have all the BRAND NEW from CMS NL springs installed (the retainer clips/valve cotters are actually not bad once you get the hang of it), 3 new valves, rest of valves cleaned, and new viton valve stem seals all over. That took me a really long time! Now I'm just waiting for some new head bolts to arrive and then it'll be trying to find time to get this all put back together. I don't anticipate it'll be quick because this is stuff I've never really done on a bike before but I think I have good, organized plan and the trusty FSM pages copied and in hand and fully read (several times). So (not that anyone cares) but things are still moving forward.

 

I'm impressed. I think when I was considering doing something similar I tried to order a full set of valves and springs from CMSNL. Can't remember what they didn't have, maybe it was the valves so I bought the spare engine instead. I think they (like David Silver) scour the market looking for NOS too so maybe they have lots of VF500 bits now.

 

Yup, I saw that on their website where they are soliciting buying NOS from anyone with any volume. I did look around for a spare engine but I didn't see any with a reasonable price and low miles. I did pick up a set of full 86 heads with cams and everything for cheap but I think only the exhaust valves are interchangable with the 84/85 heads. Anyway, they're there in case I happen to find an 86 engine or maybe swap out the 84 heads completely for the 86 heads but I doubt I'll ever get that far with all of this. Do you still have your VF500 running?

If you look in the CMSNL website they're even offering oversized rings and pistons for the 84 VF500, I didn't know those ever existed but I do remember reading somewhere that the vf500 was already at its max bore, maybe not.

 

For the record, we do care that things are moving forward!!

Your PM reminded be of this old ancient place called VFRWorld... jrodrims27 asked if I ever completed my project: for the rest in the thread, I did get my bike back together and running. Ended up painting the frame while it was all apart and put new tires on that were the correct size (old rear was like 4 or 5 cm too wide). I randomly stumbled across an '86 VFR700F that needed finished and picked it up, then sold the VF500F. I still miss that bike.

Anyways, for informational purposes:

When I reassembled the 500, I got as much of the carbon out of the head as I could with a wire wheel on a Dremel, it cleaned up pretty well. The valves required a lot of work, but I cleaned them all up too. IIRC, I could still see the double bevel on the valve once the carbon was gone, but I still lapped them into the head for a good seal. None of my valves had any mushrooming or stretching and all of my valve springs were within spec on free length. Despite this, after learning of the inevitable failure modes of the VF500 engines, I tried to refrain from redlining the bike (for the record: easier said than done) after getting it all back together.

As mentioned above, the retainer clips initially are a total PITA, but eventually you find what works. I personally found that the retainer clips were easier to put on if they had a dab of oil on them first... that helped them to stick to the valve before releasing the compressed spring. Then again, I didn't have a true spring compressor, I just built my own little wooden hinged jig to press them down (don't knock it... did the same thing recently for a CBR head, too).

I can't believe you were able to get your hands on new springs for that thing! Props for not only putting it back together, but doing it correctly.

 

Yes my VF500 is in really good condition. It is not my only bike so it doesn't get a huge amount of use. It is my favourite bike by a long way though. I have two spare engines, one from a US import donor bike (mileage on this was unknown but I think about 30K miles) and another Ebay engine with 3K miles. Valves on this one look pristine. Because of this I tend to use the OE engine to the max. I consider this an experiment in longevity (or perhaps lack of....).

 

jrodrims27: I am assuming that you read through my other thread about the VF500F... I would highly recommend slicing away a little bit of the sheathing on the chain tensioner spring before you finish reassembly. < For reference: VFRWorld - Chain Tensioner Adjustment > In my case, the tensioner was not able to adjust fully and prevent the cam chain slap that I was feeling & hearing as vibration in the 4 - 5K RPM range. It essentially allowed me to get a little more life out of the fabled unicorn-like tensioners. All it does is allows you to get a little more travel out of the tensioner before it bottoms out. Seeing how a good, low mileage tensioner is practically a myth at this point, it would be wise to extend the usability of the current ones since you've already got it apart.

 

Living the life right there!

 

Thanks man, any and all tips on this are much appreciated! I wonder why the that cover/sheath is even there? Is it so it won't catch on something maybe? I think there may actually be a few new tensioners out there now but they're expensive. A simple new spring by itself is nowhere I have been able to find though.

 

I'm getting ready to put it all together and just waiting for a couple more new head bolts. I'm going to lube the head bolts with engine oil on the threads and under the heads. I don't see anything about lubing the bolts in the FSM, lube or dry? I'm just asking because i saw a dude on a video put em on dirty and dry.

thanks to anyone who might know!

 

very little progress made, I actually thought i'd have the heads back on yesterday but I didn't account for the amount of time it takes to clean up the block "deck" properly. I made decent progress on the first pass but I have a long way to go before it's as shiny clean as the heads are. I took a couple of pictures showing the heap of little plastic packages after I finished the heads. Every single part, even the dang valve cotters come in individual separate bags. In case anyone is interested, the heads weigh about 25 pounds together and I mounted the rear exhaust before I put the head back on. I stuck it on the collector to line it up before tightening it up. Not sure if this will work but I didn't think I'd be able to adjust or tighten the rear exhaust with the engine in.

 

...inching along - block decks are flat, used a high quality steel straight edge and a .002 feeler, just going to give them a few passes with some wet 1000 grit attached to a thick flat piece of glass (checked with the .002 feeler too for flatness). I rotated the engine to get the pistons about half way down and I stuffed oil soaked paper towels as tight as I could in the cylinders while doing the cleaning to prevent any crud from getting down by the rings where it would be much harder to clean out. I also stuffed paper towels in the coolant jacket although I'm less worried about that junk because you can basically rinse that out once you get it all back together. The head gasket doesn't exactly fit like a perfect glove but it's close enough I hope. Strange how the gasket just floats over the opening in the water jacket with no support. Seems like very little margin for error in sealing/leaking... a little before and after pic action for your persusal...

09-22-15 - heads all back together and installed, valves all adjusted, just need to find the time to throw the engine back in. The lining up of the cam sprockets was not very easy. One of the lobes on the front exhaust cam was making contact with the rocker so the cam was not seated enough in the journal to allow everything to settle and make the position of the cams sprockets exactly where they should be but it worked out after a few tries. Also, adjusting the valves isn't too much fun either even with the engine out. I can imagine the pain trying to do it with the engine in place. No wonder the dealer probably just charged me for the adjustments and didn't adjust anything (about a million years ago). They'd have to pull the radiator completely off just to get to the front valve tappet screws. Coincidentally, that's that the head that had the worn valves. Maybe they did adjust the rear and said "screw that" for the front. Anyway, my cooling system is totally cleaned out with all new seals and I picked up some 86 head coolant tubes and thermostat housing because they're a little beefier in the openings and fit my hoses much better....torquing the head bolts was fun, some of the bolts were pretty creaky and noisy when they started getting tight, almost sounds like something is breaking but it all turned out ok and i did indeed clean out the bolt holes thoroughly and lube the new bolts lightly with engine oil.

 

Good read on this topic. Once again Invisiblecities, you have done your homework.

I'm jumping in here b/c I've noticed that the white dribble coming out of the head gasket area on my 85 VF500F that I cleaned up is back. It's small, and I've cleaned it a few times, but I rode it this weekend (which did not go well. Apparently I waited too long to ride it since my last ride, and now I have carb issues. Damn it.) and noticed the white, dried up dribble was back after only a couple of miles.

So, I'm thinking it's coolant. Looks like white milky water + toothpaste. Really thin. Dries white on the hot engine.

I double-checked the bolts on the head were torqued correctly (they all were) so now I'm thinking I need a head gasket on the rear cylinder?

They are NLA from Honda-San from what I read. Anyone know a suitable replacement? Even the Vesrah site, when I put in the part numbers listed (the #406) shows "not available." There's one on Ebay, but it's listed as for the front cylinder. Hmmmm. Anyone got an OEM rear cylinder one they want to sell?

In my head this seems like a simple "unbolt head, remove/scrape old gasket, install new one, torque bolts to spec" kinda job. Do I have that right? Insights? I have the OEM manual but have not looked at it yet...just thinking out loud. I'm assuming I should change the oil + filter when this is done, even though it's a small leak and it's only been probably 500 miles at most since the last oil change. Anything else I should check after this is all back together? Plugs?

Looks like I'll also have to pull the pilot jets and clean them. It will run on choke, but as soon as you cut the choke, it dies. I rode it a couple miles with the choke on, thinking it might clear up, but it died on idle at every light, and the throttle response was wet and could be measured with an hourglass. Sounded like hell too. Probably not running on all 4.

All of this pisses me off. I have prided myself on keeping this bike in top shape, and riding it often, b/c I knew these were susceptible to carb issues if they sit for a bit. I went out to ride it one day, and the cheapo battery was toast. Took me a couple days to order a new one, look around, check prices, etc. Ended up getting it at a shop, which ordered (and filled) the wrong one, which took a few more days to set right. So, all of this held me up a bit, and now I'm paying the price.

I put some Seafoam in the tank to sit for a bit, hoping it might save me from pulling the carbs out, but that never works, does it?