Braking problems - vibrations in handlebars

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by vranak, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. vranak

    vranak New Member

    Country:
    Czech Republic
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hello fellow VFR riders,

    I have a following problem which I identified during regular service works on my VFR 800 FI (1999) after last winter (this April). When riding it for the first time after winter and checking brake action I felt weird vibrations in the handlebars. Actualy, the whole front mask started vibrating when I pressed the front brake lever. I inspected the brakes (calipers and brake pads) and found out the rear pads were nearly completely worn out but the fronts were still OK. I bought new rear brake pads and replaced the old ones with them. While buying the pads I talked with the mechanic who told me that it looked like a front brake discs issue. The discs on my VFR look like new though and I can´t see any damage of them (wear, warps...). Everything looks really OK. Well, after a while spent describing him the condition of my front brake discs he recommended me to clean the discs of all debris which should solve the problem. I did it, replaced the rear brake pads, inspected the front brake pads, discs, pad pins, bled the system the way user´s manual suggests. Today I rode it on the best roads in the surroundings so that I could eliminate vibrations brought about by bumps on roads. The vibrations are still there.

    When I just lightly apply the front brake lever at approximately 100 miles/hour, the bike starts to slow down and vibrations are insignificant. On the other hand, when I press the lever intensly, immediately you can feel the vibrations and the most significant vibrations come when speed decreases to approximately 60 miles/hour. With further decreasing speed the vibrations subside. I can ride the bike at all possible speed levels and handling is without any troubles. No vibrations. They appear only when I apply front brake lever. Applying the rear brake lever means slow, smooth brake action.

    Has anyone of you dealt with the same or similar problem? As I can´t find anything wrong I´ve started blaming my new tyres of the vibrations. Last autumn I replaced my old Dunlops with Michelin Pilot Road 3. They have really interesting pattern but once I saw them on my bike I thought the mechanic did something wrong and installed the front tyre reversely. Eventualy (after having watched several youtube videos :)) I realized all was OK. Isn´t it possible that MPR3 tyre could cause the vibrations?

    I would really appreciate if anyone could give me any clues to deal with these miserable vibrations.

    Best regards,

    Petr
     
  2. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Woodford, VA
    Map
    I'm having the exact same issue. I'm thinking maybe my rotors need replacement.
     
  3. nearfreezing

    nearfreezing New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Worcester, MA
    Map
    I'd try the following in order:
    1. Check tire pressure.
    2. Lubricate caliper slider pins with clear silicone brake grease.
    2. Check front rotor run-out. Replace rotors/pads if out of spec.
    3. Replace front pads.
    4. Rebuild calipers.

    Edit: made some changes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  4. dino71

    dino71 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Map
    Hi Petr,

    I don't mean to hi-jack your thread but we may have the same problem. When I was using ONLY the foot brake I was getting a crazy vibration from what seemed to be the front right caliper......but when I apply the hand brake and foot brake simultaneously the vibration goes away. So what did i do about it? First I replaced the delay valve that mounted to the right fork leg which cost me $100 and a few hours work to re-blead the brake system. My next (logical??) step it to rebuild both front calipers so I hope there is a how-to on this board on how to do it :smile-new: This vibration in my bike has to do with something in the path of the hydraulics so this will be a winter project because I am tired of wrenching this bike for 2014!! I would try to check to see if you can replicate my problem, if applying the hand brake lever is not causing any vibration i would like to believe that the rotors are still good so the cause of the problem has to be with the caliper.
     
  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,839
    Likes Received:
    743
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Map
    Could be a problem with the steering head bearings. If too loose or worn out (anything after 30,000 miles is suspect) front end shakes under braking are common.
     
  6. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    13,741
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Chilliwack, BC Canada
    Map
    I have heard this problem many times here. Any one or a combination of above could be the issue. Don't overlook your front tires. I have had a sinilar problem with mine. WHen the tires are new, no issue, but after a couple thousand miles, the fronts shakes bad when applying the front brake. Every tire I have had on this bioke, just finishing off the 6th pair, the front tire has cupped. Cheap ugly Dunlops, three pair of Michelin PR2 and a pair of PR3. All of the cupped. I can't seem to find a solution to this problem of tire cupping. It has not affected the ridability of the bike in my case though. Good luck with a solution.
     
  7. vranak

    vranak New Member

    Country:
    Czech Republic
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thank you all for your ideas and recommendations. As for the tires, they have just about 1,500 km and I check the pressure nearly each time I go for a ride. I found out it is one of the most important things if you want to enjoy riding your bike (and especially cornering). I don´t think the wear of tires would be the cause of vibrations. Maybe the wheel is not well balanced or I could lose any of the weights, but then I think I would feel discomfort even when riding the bike, not just when braking. The rotors don´t seem to be damaged in any way and the wear is minimal, but I will check on the width. Therefore I would assume I have to take the front calipers apart and clean and lubricate all the parts that need it. I will spend my Saturday trying to discover the root of the problem. If I don´t find it this weekend, hopefully I will get closer to the solution to the problem. I will share my findings with you :).
     
  8. mlap5150

    mlap5150 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    May 16, 2013
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    St. Clair Shores, MI
    Map
    Curious as to what you find. I have a similar issue, except the vibration is very momentary and happens maybe 10-20% of the time when I hit the brakes.
     
  9. Mrboss

    Mrboss New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    São Martinho Do Bispo, Coimbra, Portugal, Portuga
    Happens to me the same. And, if I let go the bars, slow, or medium speed, the steering starts to do a small tank-slapping, controllable by a finger. no braking involved... think my tyre is gone....
     
  10. vranak

    vranak New Member

    Country:
    Czech Republic
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I´m back after a while. I inspected front calipers, cleaned them and found everything working properly. Rotors show some signs of wear but nothing significant. The width is perfectly within limits. The breakthrough was made with new brake pads. They seem to have solved most of the problem. Now when I intensly brake at higher speeds, everything works smoothly. Just when I turn 70 - 80 km/h (cca 50 miles/h), there´s a slight tremble for which I still cannot find a reason. Braking is now much better and maybe new steer bearing would 100% solve the problem. However, to add insult to injury, during the weekend I found out something which really displeased me. The level of oil in bike had all of a sudden ascended without signs of anything going wrong, but as I always check the oil level before each and every ride, I noticed it. I think this is material for another thread.
     
  11. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Fingers crossed that you are right in your diagnosis - but given the age of the bike I rather suspect that simply replacing the pads will only mask the problem temporarily. Its not just the thickness of the rotor that matters - they must also be true (not warped) which is very difficult to check, especially without removing the disc from the wheel.

    When vibration is detected under braking but not otherwise, it effectively rules out many other causes of vibration. So things like tyres or wheels being out of balance or shape can largely be discounted as they would generally give rise to a continuous vibration linked to road speed.

    Obviously if the pads were badly worn down resulting in some metal on metal braking that has the potential to cause noticeable grabbing/snatching and would normally be accompanied by a discernible screetching/squeal noise. However if all the pads you removed still had some meat on them, it is quite possible that slightly warped brake rotors were the real cause of the braking vibration you detected. Obviously whilst the new pads bed in, the vibration may indeed be slightly reduced, but it will tend to return eventually.

    Sadly in all but the most extreme cases, it is very difficult to spot if a brake rotor is warped simply by visual inspection especially without help of a second person. So if you find the problem returns or becomes more noticeable, then I suggest you get a friend to help by smoothly and continuously rotating the front wheel with the bike up on the main stand, whilst you sit on the ground in front of the bike so you can look directly down the side of the rotor and assess whether or not the gap to the calliper edge varies. What you are trying to check for is whether that gap widens/reduces or moves side to side as the rotor passes. If there is any visible side to side movement in the brake rotor then, assuming the calliper mounting is not loose, you may need to invest in new brake rotors.

    Good luck keep us updated.


    SkiMad
     
  12. viffviff

    viffviff New Member

    Country:
    Sweden
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Peterborough
    Map
    I have had the same problem in my '99 VFR. it only occurs every now and again (less than 10% of the time - so doubt it is the discs or it would happen often), and on light braking from speed (say 50 mph). My garage suggested it was likely to be something to do with the secondary piston which feeds the back brakes (when the front compresses) and not to worry about it. Let us know if you find a permanent cure!
     
  13. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,245
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Platte City, MO
    Map
    I'm with Squirrelman, and say to check out the steering head bearings.
     
  14. Mrboss

    Mrboss New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    São Martinho Do Bispo, Coimbra, Portugal, Portuga
    I've checked my forks, and they are in good shape. Checked my tyre, and is flat on one spot. Perhaps from previous owner having it parked for too long before selling.

    For now will have to do this actual tire. still 50% thread, and will not exceed my speed.

    It shakes lightly accelerating, confirming my tire gone...
     
  15. vranak

    vranak New Member

    Country:
    Czech Republic
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1

    Thank you SkiMad,

    when I think of it, it is true that even if the braking process runs smoothly at higher speeds, when the speed decreases to a certain levels I can fell the uneven braking effect (it kind of slows down unevenly .. like on a flat sinusoid :) ). It is not unpleasant and doesn´t give any vibrations into the handlebars but there really is this effect. Well, the bike has 90 000 km with one set of rotors and I thought when they still look good and the width is perfectly within limits there can´t be problems with warps. The bike was never involved in any accident and I have also heard that the colour of rotors would be different because a warp occurs either in accident or when you overheat the rotors. Is it possible then that they are simply warped because the bike has already covered 90 000 km? Some kind of weariness of material?

    And it is also true that there still was meat on the brake pads. Only one pad was discernibly more worn out than the others. That´s why I inspected all the pistons in calipers to find out whether they all work properly. They do. Well, I will ask my dealer about new rotors. I´m growing fond of the idea of replacing the rotors.

    After all, if nothing else, the brakes have to work 100%.

    Best regards,

    Vranak
     
  16. bladrnr

    bladrnr New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Santa Rosa,CA
    Map
    I had the same problem with my 92' VFR. The rotor was warped. I tried buying used ones from a salvage yard they were worse than old ones. Sorry but I think you'll have to buy new rotors.
     
  17. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    15,047
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Try pushing the bike in neutral. It should roll fairly easily. If there is drag in rolling the bike forward or even backward. The problem aside from a sloppy steering head bearing might be in the front master cylinder needing a rebuild kit or oxidation in the calipers. In the rear, basically the same deal. Undue wear on the rear pads are also an indicator if proper braking is part of the riders skills.

    If the
    rotors are suspect. Pull them and take them to nearly any brake shop to be checked for warps.


    Letting shit like this go can lead to some major bad Juju..
     
  18. vranak

    vranak New Member

    Country:
    Czech Republic
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi everyone,

    today I've finally ridden my bike after several months with new front rotors, braking pads and fuel pressure regulator. Problems with vibrations in handlebars are gone and it seems to me the bike runs more smoothly. I am enjoying it a lot :). Well, thank you all a lot for your helpful feedbacks.
     
  19. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

    Country:
    New Zealand
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,728
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Map
    Hi Vranak, glad that your problems are solved.

    Just as an aside, I read a while back (either here or VFRD, can't find the link right now) about a procedure for straightening a warped rotor. The consensus there was that a warped rotor was more likely damage to the aluminium carrier than the steel disk, which makes a lot of sense when you think about the relative thickness and strengths of the two. The OP had had great success straightening the bent rotor by tweaking the carrier with a pry bar, after doing some run-out measurements and marking up the high spot, and ended up with perfectly true rotors and no pulsations.

    The post suggested that warped rotors don't occur due to wear and tear, they occur due to unintentionally banging the disk during maintenance like wheel removal or tyre changing.
     
  20. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,019
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    South FL
    Map
    You can't buy used rotors, its like buying used underware. Unless your dealing with Pam Anderson, then all bets are off :loco: dollars to donuts it can be traced to a rotor, or possibly a bad front tyre. I have seen some people wacking rotors to true them then using a piece of glass with a feeler gauge or light to determine if they were successful. Keep in mind, these are the same people that drain the motor oil oot of their cars/bikes, and use it in their lawn mowers, then drain it oot again and use it for cutting oil.
     
Related Topics

Share This Page