Suspension upgrade recommendations / Shop in Los Angeles, Cerritos area

For the most part you do not have to remove the forks, IF you are not changing the fork seals, draining the fluid and even swapping out the valves and shims can be done without removing the forks from the bike. Although setting the fluid level does work better when the forks are off the bike, but it's not 100% necessary. TBH, the hardest part we had on one install was removing the bottom bolt from the slider. On my friends '95 the hex bolt stripped out and we had to drill out the head and once that was out it was pretty straight forward. In fact, trying to get the rear shock removed and installing the 929 shock on his '95 took a lot more effort than the forks!

I will say that when Jamie sends out the fork component it's pre-assembled (so to speak) and all you have to do is take the old stuff off and install the new stuff in the order in which Jamie assembled it.

 

Sorry for the dumb questions but I don't know that much about this. Does the fork kit from DMr come with a new modified dampening rod or do you have to modify the stock damper? I would think for the price $500 + it would. Also will 2 liters of Honda Pro 5w fork oil be enough to complete the job?

 

What you get from DMr will depend on what you're requesting. If you are just doing the Springs/Valve/Shims then the damping rod would not be part of the kit. However if you are adding the adjustable rebound damping as part of the upgrade then I would say it would be. As far as how much oil, 2L is more than enough! In fact 1 quart should be just about enough IIRC.

BTW, Here's what the oil bottle looks like...

Well, offer expires while you wait... :wink:

 

Here's what I got by email from Jamie:
"I am in the process of releasing a cartridge upgrade kit that will include all parts pre-assembled for easy installation. It will include all new compression valving, all new rebound valving, new springs, and new adjustable caps and damping rods. Basically everything except the cartridge tube itself (which will be reused from your stock forks)."

From that I am expecting a pre-assembled compression valve, and a damper rod connected to a new (and adjustable) rebound valve, plus a new fork cap incorporating the adjustment screw for rebound. And the new springs and spacers. I am expecting the installation will still require a disassembly of the damper cartridge as the old parts need to be pulled out so the tube can be re-used.

I've been waiting on Jamie to supply the kit for a couple of months, as he is having some problems with his suppliers preparing components. He has offered me a much cheaper kit of parts excluding the adjustable fork caps (so new valve bodies, pre-configured shim stacks, springs and spacers) that will require a little more assembly work, but I have always fancied a more adjustable fork so I am waiting this one out.

The shop manual specifies 457mL oil per leg, set to a height of 130mm.

 

Damn your metric system! It's 15.5 oz. for us! :wink: The quart size bottle (32oz) would be just be enough but I bought 2 bottles just in case, when I did the forks for my '09. Looks like JD is making up for lost time, nice to know that he's making a full kit that can just "drop in". I sent him my forks for the '01 as he was doing the rebound adjusters for those forks and I didn't think I'd have the time to do this myself, so I had him put in the SKF seals while he was at it.

 

I am old enough to have gone through school when the transition was happening from imperial (I guess that would be the Dark Side) to metric, so am in the fortunate position of being only marginally competent in both systems!!! And what's up with motorcycling? How come I need a 36 psi in my 120mm wide front tyre to fit my 17" rim? I'll have to pull out my slide rule and log tables to convert everything. otstir:

 

I remember them trying to convert us over to the metric system back in elementary school (circa 1970) and personally it made sense to me, but I guess we we're too set in our ways to change. My Duc requires 2.1 Bar for air pressure...I think I need break out the abacus for that conversion!

Cheers!

 

So with the kit Jamie has in the works, would a fork revalve/rebuild be a mostly DIY thing? The main reason I've resisted having him do my forks is that I can't spare the downtime needed to send the forks in off the bike; being able to do it over a weekend in my shed would be huge.

 

Yes this is definitely a DIY job, the only bit that needs specialist guidance is the selection of the shims, and that is something you are paying JD for.

You just need to be able to drill out a couple of spots on each cartridge (battery drill + the bit) and hand file off the burs that creates so they don't wreck the o-rings on the compression valve. Access to a bench vice to hold things still makes the job a lot easier. Then file off peened over threads on the end of the damper rod so you can disassemble the rebound valve. The rest is just wrenching and you'll need basic tools for that like 10, 12 and 14mm spanner/sockets, 6mm allen key, 24mm socket or big adjustable wrench for the fork caps. Then a litre of fork oil and some way to get the level on that correct. And if you like to avoid stripped threads and have peace of mind :smug:, a torque wrench and the torque values from the shop manual, plus some threadlock. Buckets to catch the oil, rags to wipe up the mess, kerosene to flush out the goop and I think that would cover everything.

While you are in there you can replace the fork bushings, but you don't need to disturb these or the fork seals if all you're doing is the springs and damper cartridge. You may need to replace the copper sealing washer on the damper rod bolt but I've gotten away with re-using these many times.

 

Thanks! Cadbury, OOTV and Scubalong sound like they have vast knowledge of this process. This was a good thread, not to end it.

 

Thanks 00TV, I hope it won't take that long for me to get the 1k together, otherwise I would have to get a stand and attempt this myself which would be a bad thing.

 

Hey guys, I also saw a very good tutorial on the fork tune on youtube by a guy in the UK. James Wright Roberts, where he details fork seal replacement in a CBR 600 which look to be very similar to the VFR. Search for "seal replacement on traditional forks". James Wright Roberts. He has a very good detail on this.

Thanks again.

 

You're quite right, that is a very good video for fork seal replacement. From what I saw the CBR forks used in the video are very similar to the VFR, with the exception of the rebound adjusting needle in the fork cap.

 

Cadbury, when I finally get around to doing my forks, you might get a few PMs from me. Sounds like you've got this down pat.

 

I'd be very happy to pass on what I've learned. PM away!


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I completed my front suspension upgrade last week, using parts supplied by Daugherty Motorsport. I was going to hold out for the adjustable fork caps (which would have given me externally adjustable low speed rebound damping) but I got impatient/cheap.

Jamie supplied me with 0.90kg/mm springs (379mm long) to suit my 80kg weight and new preload spacers (49mm) , along with a new compression valve body and shims, and some new shims to replace on the shims on the standard rebound valve. There were no instructions, and to be honest without some Race Tech instructions this would have been a bit of a mission.

From my experience, the DMr compression valve body is identical to the Gold Valves part, and the shim stack that Jamie provided was also identical to the standard Gold Valve compression shim stack (c33 if you have the chart). I installed Gold Valves in the front end of my Suzuki RF900 and kept all the paperwork that Race Tech supplied.

View attachment 29111

Disassembly and reassembly was very straightforward, in fact it could not have been easier, with all the fasteners coming apart easily. Unlike the Suzuki forks, the compression valve in the Honda is not retained by punching the cartridge tube, so the valves just need to be pushed inwards to reveal the retaining circlip, then pulled out of the cartridge, or pushed out using the rebound damper piston. (I had to drill out the punchings on the Suzuki).

The rebound valve retaining nut is locked on by peened over threads and these need to be filed off to allow the nut to be removed, and the threads cleaned up a little afterwards.

I used a small drop of blue Loctite for reassembly of both valve stacks, you need to be careful not to use too much as that could glue your shim stack together! Then it was just a matter of reassembling the forks (after flushing any goo out of the innards). I set the fork oil level at 120mm from the fork top, (measured springs out, fully compressed, cartridge fully filled), as per RT's instructions, using Motul 5W oil.

The first ride was a real surprise (in a good way). The bike now rides higher at the front, and glides over small imperfections rather than bouncing off them, and generally feels much calmer at speed. Being very picky, I felt that the high speed compression damping was still a bit stiff, as decent bumps (like the edges of re-sealed tar sections) were still hitting me a bit hard through the bars, and the steering was slower than I liked, with a tendency to run a little wide unless I kept some bar pressure on.

So for round two I repeated the rebuild process, this time removing a single 0.15 x 17mm shim from the compression stack (thus leaving two) which takes me back to the C32 set-up according to Race Tech. I also dropped the oil level to 130mm, and re-installed the forks 5mm further through the triples. I also opted (unnecessarily as it turned out) to replace the fork seals and fork bushings while I was in there, but I think the PO must have done this not too long before I got the bike!

This set-up feels even better, and has taken out all of the hammering that I was getting with the stock set-up. I get a bit of arthritis in my wrists, and was getting really sore after an hour as stock, with the modified front end that is gone! Dropping the forks 5mm has also sorted out the steering so turn in and line holding is better.

For those of you contemplating some suspension modifications....DO IT!

 

What could be better? Info direct from the source from a member who engineers the stuff, glowing reports from users and offers of a lot of help from some real wrenches. You might want to talk with Works Performance for one more bit of homework. Then all ya have to do is get off the pot..

 

Not exactly the same, the devil is in the details. For sure you are limited with geometry on 20mm cartridges so they will look similar.

A tapered stack is pretty well understood as the way to go for generating the best performance. You might notice my stack is not identical to the RT specs. The trick is not knowing what a tapered stack is but rather understanding what the correct stack and piston combination should be for a given application.

I'm glad to hear it is working out well for you!