2002 VFR800 ABS Won't Stay Running After Jumper Cables Removed

Looking for some help!! Had the bike at an authorized Honda dealer last spring because the previous summer before the battery didn't seem to want to stay charged. Took in for 2002 harness recall??? (Can find papers if you want more info). Got bike back and ran fine all year. Late last fall, rode it and left it sit for 2 days, came back and had to jump it. Ran fine until winter storage. Forgot to attached trickle charger (thought was plugged in garage, but was not), anyways, jumped it last week and started fine. Drove around my drive way and parked it again (plugged in trickle charger this time :redface. Came out to ride over the weekend, and the thing was COMPLETELY dead. Now when I try to jump it (using my car) and I remove the cables, it completely loses all power and stops running. Using volt meter, the battery had 3.5V before start, while running it was steady around 12.6V. Could someone please give me some troubleshooting direction? Could it be the infamous R/R problem? HELP!

 

Replace that battery.

So you've done the electrical recall. VFRness?

 

Ok, I checked my papers. December 2011 was when the battery was done, along with the harness recall. I do not have a VFRness. Could the battery be bad already?

 

Sounds like another VFR suffering the dreaded stator/RR/battery/loom gremlins. All four bits need to be in good health. Problems with any bit of the charging system can damage the others. Start by putting the battery on a tender overnight. Disconnect the charger and before hooking up to the bike use a multimeter to test to see if the battery is producing and holding decent volts (12.5 - 13.5 volts), repeat after 1 hour to ensure it is not dropping. - You will find heaps of advice on batteries here - Motorbike battery maintenance and fault finding from the White Dog guide to Motorcycle Batteries

If necessary replace the battery - but don't assume that the problem is fixed - you need to know what killed it. It may simply be that it was actually killed because you forgot to turn on the charger but left it connected over winter. Most, but not all, chargers have anti-drain protection.

Once we have a fully charged battery, carry out "the drill" - to check the health of your charging system. - http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html

After doing the static resistance tests on the RR and Stator you also need to do tests of the stator AC output with the engine running but take care with your multimeter probes. Note testing the stator output is done with the RR disconnected. You need to test and then note down the AC volts measured across all three pairings of the yellow wires. Do not allow the probes to directly cross connect the yellow wires or provide a route to ground - as it can fry your stator.

You need to check the AC output when the stator is cold, and again straight after its been for a long hard ride so the whole thing is really hot. The insulating properties of the windings inside the stator may degrade with heat - and can potentially reverse a perfectly healthy AC Volts reading when cold to provide a full on battery drain when hot and leaving you stranded in North Wales - well it happened to mine!

Good luck lets us know how you get on.


SkiMad

 

I agree with Skimad4X4 above and It is always a good idea to do periodic visual checks on the electrical connectors. But it sounds like just a battery. Letting a battery die will vastly shorten it's life! Get a new battery, check it's voltage, start bike and check voltage, and check voltage again with bike at 5,000 rpms. Post all three readings. Just my three cents.

 

Thanks all for the help! The first thing I did was check the current battery. Disconnected from the bike, I measured about 3.5V. Yes, completely dead. I put it on the trickle charger overnight and measured 1.25V. So I think the battery sounds like a great place to start. I will get a new one this week, and go through what Skimad4x4 and MrSleep have to say. Thanks again, I will keep everyone updated.

 

If your battery is good and has a full charge the bike will still run even if the stator and R/R are completely disconnected from the wiring harness. I hope you didn't jump start it with the car running cuz that's a sure way to fry the battery.

Rollin

 

No, I did not start with the car running. The new battery is supposed to be here today, so I hope to give everyone an update later tonight, or tomorrow. Thanks again all for the help, hopefully can iron this thing out.

 

Hi

There is one more possibility why your battery died so soon. When you get new battery check voltages when running at 5000+ rpms. If your voltage goes higher than 14.4 volts your voltage regulator may be dead and will burn your new battery. Even if that checks out i would measure the phase voltages that come out of your "alternator". All phase voltages must be exactly the same otherwise your stator is damaged and will not charge your battery.

just my safety opinion

 

Ok, first testing done. Picked up new battery from dealer, they said they had it on the charger prior to me picking up. Tested battery prior to connecting to bike, 12.9V. Installed and started the bike, 14.02V idle around 1200rpm. Reved bike to 5,000RPM and got a reading of 14.06V, so it seems like the voltage isnt jumping and the R/R is ok. Should I still do all the other testing, or ride for a week or so and follow up? Thanks again everyone for the help, I appreciate it.:biggrin:

 

Yea, it seems your stator and r/r are fine. It's up to you if you want to check out everything else. I check out things every oil change. Visual check of the connections and put a meter on the battery when running. I already have the fairings off and it's a nice peace of mind! May sound like a hassle but less so than breaking down on the road and having to get a tow.

 

well nice to hear that all is ok. i didnt had such luck. mine battery broke down 1800km from home and i replaced it on the way but bike didnt charge it enough and it went empty on the road. its just pure luck that im electornic expert and i measured that if i had no lights the bike would chage just enough to keep the battery full for the injection to work. so i came home without lights and next day pulled the stator out of the bike and it was srsly burned. The sucker cost me 450eur but at least now i have confidence that it will work for quite some time. as i did a research on it i figured that all models till 2008 had problems with stator due to bad insulation that gets corroded because of hot oil running over it. Later models have better insulation and so do the replacement parts. Im still just a little dissapointed of the price as its fairly common for stator to fail. For all vfr 2002-2008 users i reccomend checking the stator at approx 50-60k km because its very easy to inspect it and you can avoid towing and expensive on road repairs.

have fun guys

ps: sorry for my bad english

 

Just an update: so I was doing an oil change and my visual inspection of the electrical connections as I explained above and looky what I found...
Sure glad I found this before it turned into something bigger and more expensive!

 

***************UPDATE*********************

SOOOO, after purchasing the new battery and riding for the last few weeks, all seems well. I went to ride to work this morning, and to my luck, the bike does not start. The last time I rode was Friday. Prior to trying to start, I observed the clock was still the right time, and the display was not fading. When I turned the key on and flipped the run switch, I noticed the "noise" the VFRs make wasn't as high pitched. But I decided to try to start anyway, and sure enough, it tried to turn over, and didnt not start. The clock also reset. This is very similar to what has happened before. Any more feedback would be greatly appreciated. Sounds like there is something draining the battery slowly, even with the bike off. Not being an eletrical expert, where would I start troubleshooting this? (The bike starts and runs fine after being jumped).

 

Here's a diagnostic algorithm:
Fault Finding Guide - Motorcycle Electrical Fault Finding Chart - ElectroSport

Alternately, you can follow the Honda shop manual.

You'll need a multimeter, which you can pick up for $20-30 at Sears. Or you can get a cheap one from HF for $5.

 

Sounds increasingly likely the Stator is the real problem. Changing the battery simply masked the effects for a while. As your battery is very new its probably OK just to disconnect it and charge it overnight and then test volts and again after an hour - if the number remains the same and over 12.5 volts then hook it back up and this time do all the checks in the drill. As I said last time you need to find what bit(s) of the charging system are faulty. When you are done post up the results.

From your description of what happened I rather suspect the volts AC from the stator at idle and 5,000rpm will be way low, and rather than charging the battery it is discharging it. But facts are better than speculation so get the multimeter out and if you have questions on what to do just post here.

Remember you are not alone - scroll through the recent threads and you will find this comes up time and again, and as long as you stick at it we should have the bike running as it should. If the stator AC volts are out of spec and not consistent then confirm by removing the stator cover and you will probably find some well fried windings. If so don't forget to add your name to the 6th Gen fried stator roll of honour thread!

Keep us posted.



SkiMad

 

Update

Well guys, I do apologize. After about a year off from riding (long story short, had an eye injury that kept me off the bike, don't worry it wasn't related:biggrin-new:. I have resumed my troubleshooting, been through the "drill" and here is what I come up with:

I printed out myself a copy of the electrical troubleshooting guide and went through it step by step. All static test come back fine. When running the bike is when I see some inconsistencies. When testing the voltage across the "+"" of the battery and R/R, I should have a voltage less than 0.2. I was getting 0.21, 0.2. Everything else seemed to check ok. I got ~60V AC across all three wires of stator so I think that's ok. The "-" side of the battery and R/R was 0.07V so I think all is well there. The static check across the diodes of the R/R checked out so I think the R/R is actually fine as well. Sounds like VFRness time to me? Anyone's thoughts are appreciated!

 

Charge your battery, 6 to 10a for 4hrs then 2a or less for 18hrs or so. Start with a fresh charged battery. Then start bike, attach volt meter and record idle volts and 5000rpm volts. If your idle volts are below 13.2 and your 5krpm volts are below 13.8 then do the drill. My bet is that crap connector cooked your r/r. You can check the stator quickly by unplugging it from the r/r and with your volt meter on volts ac check between pairs of pins ( three separate readings) at idle you should have about 30vac between pairs and at 5k rpm you should have close to 60vac or more. If any pair of pins are lower than 5v below the other pairs then you must do a resistance test as found in the drill. You can find it in the 6thgen garage. If all is good then get a shiny new 6th gen r/r and new connectors then your good to go again.

And yes you have the electricalitis that plagues early 6th gens, either make a vfrness or buy one to solve most of the issues before it happens again.

 

Hmm

As you had the wiring recall done, I don't think you need to mess with VFRness (which basically beefs up the stock wiring) unless you have found evidence that the wiring is not in good condition - melted connectors or fused wires - which mainly seemed to affect the earlier, pre-vtec VFR models.


Clearly those numbers don't look right, BUT your reference of testing between " "+"" of the battery and R/R," raises the question of whether you may not have the multi-meter settings right or have attached the leads at the wrong place, and are getting misleading results.

(Sorry I have no idea how familiar you are with electrical testing - so if you know what you are doing - please ignore the stuff at the end about how to use a multi-meter.)


Test (1) - Disconnect the battery and check the battery standing volts - (red lead on + terminal, black lead on - terminal) - what is the DC Volts?
Tell us the result.

If the battery is healthy the result should be between 12.5-13.5 volts. If it is below that range, recharge it overnight using a charger suitable for motorbike batteries (beware some car chargers are not good for use on motorbike batteries). We can proceed to the next step if the battery is then within the range - if not buy a new battery, ensure it is properly charged and repeat the standing volts check so note down the battery standing volts (we need a baseline to work from) before proceeding to...

Test (2)

Attach the battery to bike.

Start the bike and test for DC volts across the two battery terminals (red lead on + terminal, black lead on - terminal) - what is the DC Volts at idle?

(Normally a healthy stator and RR should be delivering 13 - 14 volts+ at idle.) [I really can't figure out how you were observing 0.2????]


Test (3)

Next - rev the engine to around 5,000 rpm - what is the DC Volts?

(It should be between 14 and 15 volts once it is above 2,000 rpm, but it should never exceed 15.5 volts or things like headlight bulbs will blow.


Post up the results, and hopefully we can figure out what they mean and advise on what to do next.

Please feel free to add pictures if you want to check you had the multi-meter set up right with the leads attached correctly.






USING A MULTI-METER

Precisely what you need to do to check for DC Volts depends on what type of multi-meter you own. So your first step should be to read the instructions! If you are not sure - post up a photo of the multi-meter and we can advise what lead plugs in where and where the settings dial needs to be turned.

If you have never used a multi-meter before (we all start sometime) and really want to understand how to use them safely - this guy's videos are admittedly a pretty low level advertisement - but they will give you the basics. This is the first of 4 videos - work through all 4 ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBbgiBU96mM


Anyway the basic test you need to make, is to check of DC volts across the battery terminals. Assuming you have a standard multi-meter - then step one is install the battery in the multi-meter, and then check it is turned on - the screen should show something (normally 1 or 0) when it is on.

Plug black test lead into COM
Plug red test lead into V (or red)

Turn dial to DCVolts(DCV) - good practice is to start testing with the highest voltage range and step progressively down until the measured item is reasonably within the measurement range. As we are checking typical battery voltages of around 12 volts I suggest you use the scale just above that (so 20 volts or 50 volts should be fine). Do the voltage tests described above across the battery terminals.

I hope that helps



SkiMad

 

I can see confusion reins due to the post by Mr Sleep -- that crap connector was not on the VFR owned by BaTZY2002 it was on Mr Sleep's bike!