unseizing a VF500F

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

with the mixture that has been sitting in the bike for about a month now and with just a slight rock in top gear. IT NOW TURNS FREELY. if you hit the starter it turns over with ease. how much of a bad idea will it be filling the cylanders back up with the mixture and let sit again. shouldnt this eat a lot more of the rust away. im not saying the rings dont need replacing but could this work short term.

 

See, wasn't rusted up that bad after all was it? Thumbs up to you for NOT tossing in the towel and quitting. Yes add some more "mixture" to it.
Still not out of the woods yet BUT at least you know there is chance and a good one.

 

Did you say you pulled the oil pan off? If so check the oil screen for trash in it. CLEAN IT.

 

forget the mixture stuff. put plugs in it and see if it will start or try to. The damage has been done you can't fix that so filling the cylinders isn't going to fix or delay anything.

I say get it fired up, take it up to 9000 rpms hold it there for 3-4 minuntes to blow all the shit out. If it survives that it'll be a good runner................................................:amen:

 

Don't worry too much about the rings. I have purchased two locked up bikes with rusted bores. Both ran just fine after I got the pistons unstuck. I say crank it over with the plugs out to get everything out of the cylinders. Pull the pan and clean everything including the screen. Put some fresh oil and gas in it and try and make it go putty putty. You can work on the little stuff like carbs later if it fires off. I'm with Grey. Get it fired up and then hold it about 9000.

 

Though rough treatment is not advised, if you do try to fire it up, make sure you put some 2 cycle oil or other oil thats desing to burn and lub at the same time into each bore. You dont need much, about a teaspoon. This will ensure that the rings have some lube on them as your 'mixture' will not leave any lube behind. Also make damn sure the oil filter is new and the pickup screens are cleaned. Fresh oil is a very strong suggestion.

Dont try to make the carbs work yet, soak an old sock or two in fresh gas so they are wet but not dripping then place them above the carbs so you have throttle control.

Good luck!

 

I am going to respectfully disagree having gone down this road a few times. The compression rings do not need much if any lubrication. In most modern 4 stroke applications you have two compression rings and an oil control ring. The job of the oil control ring is to spread oil, onto the cylinder walls on the way up, like a butter knife, and to cut it off on the way down to keep it from hanging around and being burned. The compression rings actually get minimal lubrication. The place where you want oil is the piston skirt and up under the piston crown. This is where the piston receives its cooling and would seize if there was a lack of oil. If the rings are sliding in the bore then they are fine. It could be that a ring is broken but there is not much you can do about that and it will manifest itself soon enough once it's running. It is also possible that the ring-lands are full of rusty crud. This too should take care of itself once the engine is running and there is some violence from combustion.

We used to build topends powder dry. We washed the cylinders in hot soapy water to remove all grease. We similarly washed the pistons and rings and assembled everything dry. On start up we would hold the throttle at about 4K for at least a minute. This is the best and quickest way I know to seat compression rings. After the first few seconds, when the oil pressure is up, the splashing in the crankcase will take care of oiling the bore. Note: we did oil cam followers along with big and small end bearings and pre-pressurize the oil galleys before start up. We also ran an external oil pressure gauge on all rebuilt engines just to be certain of good oiling.

 

What used to be done and what is best are two way different things. We wont argue that here, in a humor thread maybe.

You are partly right about what the oil control rings do, but they are not the ones that scrape the bore clean. Oil control rings are only there to help the compression rings clear off the excess oil. The lower compression ring does the hard work and removes most of the oil, but some still gets by it, the upper compression ring finishes the job and is lubricated by this very thin coating of oil. It doesnt take much and provides a longer lasting engine.

Control rings used to be like compression rings, very tight against the bore and would do most of the scraping. But it was discovered in the late 60's that you need some lube on the compression rings. So manufactures provided more space between compression rings and reduce the space between control to compression rings.

Your hot soapy water actually has some lube properties, and if your assembling and starting inside the same day then its fine. Assembly lube is for if your not going to run the motor anytime soon.

I do agree with the higher rpm seating of rings. It has been proven that if you baby the engine during break in then it will 'want' to be babied all its life. However run it in the way your going to drive/ride it and it will like that.

 

Very true.

You have to understand that back then, we were fighting the standard industry practice of assembling an engine with cylinders dripping in oil. The rings we had never seated when treated to the oil bath assembly method. Very small amounts of oil are al that are necessary to lube rings.

 

If you want to know industry standard crap, try telecomunications. Every manufacturer has its own standard and wont play nice with anybody else.

Dripping in oil on new is stupid, never seats and always comes back for warranty repair. Take a rag and a little oil then wipe the bores before assembly and thats all thats needed. But on a rusty bore thats not getting pulled apart yet, adding oil above the rings is s good way to prevent breaking a ring or jambing a piston. The oil will float the rust out of the ring area and allow it to be expelled as the engine runs. Light oils used for rust penetration just move the rust to the lowest spot available, the rings.

 

doing a bit more work on it today. working on the throttle issue i have. im going to need to replace the throttle cables and while im going i will do the grips and the sleeve. (one cable was unmovable) i was reading somewhere that when i first start it up i should turn over the engine a few times to pump oil all around. than do similar as you guys where saying but just run 2 stoke fuel in it. what do you guys think of running a liter or two of two stoke at 9,000 pm to help blow any shit out.

tank is a bit rusty as well, (someone lost the cap) im planning on giving it a bit of a clean and just running a extra filter. but while im working on the bike so i dont have to put everything back on just to test it, i have made a small fuel tank out of a 5lt jerry can and a barbed fuel link outlet.

 

Please don't run it at 9000rpm. That was a stab at satire, just a joke. A little 2 stroke oil won't hurt, to much of anything like that may foul a plug that's all. make sure you have a fuel filter. See if it will fire if so let it run. Most likely smoke because of junk that may be in pipes. Let it get warm, watch temp gauge and don't let it over heat. That should be good for starters.

 

I think this bike has been used as a boat anchor.

 

I have always been amazed at how some people can care (or not) for a motorcycle. I understand about living in a place with no garage. I did that for many years but I always had a cover on my bike. I am also pretty lucky. I live in a place far from the effects of the ocean with minimal road salt and hot, mostly dry summers. Bikes and cars just do not rot here. I read accounts, especially from the UK and the East coast of the US and I think "WOW! I have never seen bikes deteriorate like that around here."

 

It's a HONDA it will fire up and run and run and run...........................That's the spirit!!

 

- :/ good think i checked.

im the first to admit that im a novice with engine but im getting there. its a strange like. lots of screws either missing or place with something similar. to buy them stuff i know i need its going to cost me around $150 so i want to make sure its all running before i buy it all. i will clean the screen and replace the filters soon than see if its starts. go from there

 

I know mine did!