Bike died 3 months after new Battery & R/R

I have a 1998 VFR and I just replaced my R/R and battery in the beginning of Nov. 2013. It was the 3rd time I've replaced my r/r since getting the bike in 2004. Installed a Mosfet unit from RM Stator (see below).

http://www.rmstator.com/en/catalog-years/1998/honda/vfr800/mosfet-regulator-rectifier-rm30504h

Everything was working fine after the install until last Monday morning on my way work. 3 lights away from pulling on to the Bay Bridge, the bike had trouble pulling away from the light and I thought I just let out the clutch too quickly. Next light, same thing happened even though I made sure I was careful with the throttle and clutch. By the time I got to the last light before the bridge I realized something was wrong, I pulled over the and bike subsequently died and wouldn't start back up. Got a tow home and am now trying to figure out what is going on.

I bought a voltmeter yesterday and pulled the battery and gave it a test. Less than 11.5. I charged it using my trickle charger and it seems to have taken a full charge. I'm planning to put it back in the bike and give it a try although I assume even if it works, that something deeper is wrong with the bike. Since I just got a new R/R and battery, what is the next thing I should check? I don't have experience with electrical systems other than slapping in a few new R/R's the last few years and would appreciate any advice on my next step.

Based on some searches, I think I need to inspect all the wiring for damage (didn't see any when I last installed the R/R) and check the stator as well. Just want to get any advice from anyone who has had a similar problem. Most of the threads I found on this arose from OEM R/R's that burned out, not new R/R's.

Thanks in advance. Chris

 

Have you take a look at the Stator..?
Might want to read this
http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthre...Canuck/page5?highlight=Advanture+of+the+canuk

 

Hey Morades. Sorry to hear about your woes.

Just changing out the R/R might not be solving the problem. You need to do a full check of the charging/electrical system. I know that my second R/R was also a better unit. But other wires and connections still failed within a couple thousand miles. I finally fixed it by not only using another MOSFET, but I also went with the VFRness and I soldered every connection.

Take a look at this link below, especially post #9.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39277-How-to-fix-common-regulator-Stator-failures

You need to diagnose everything before throwing more money at it (although I suspect there will be money thrown at it).

 

Thanks Pliskin, I will give the "Drill" a try and see if I can determine where the weak point is. After having gone through a few R/R's and having my current battery deplete so quickly after getting a new one, I imagine it may be a problem with the stator or connecting wires.

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "soldering every connection"? I now what soldering is generally but I am so green in this context that I'm not sure that would mean exactly in practice with the bike's connections. Sadly, after reading about this issue at length this morning, it seems everyone but myself has a strong background in electrical systems. Any "how to" video's you can recommend? Just reading everyone's instructions on this topic has confused me pretty thoroughly.

 

Many times the fault can be traced to burned/melted wires at the red plug on top of starter relay.

 

When I replaced my r/r I also replaced the associated charging system wiring and connectors. I went with either R1 pr Zx10 R/R. Not a problem since that on any of the bikes I did. So far I upgraded the charging system on 3 x 4th gen and one 5th gen, and one superhawk.

If you are ever headed to the central Valley I can lend a hand.

 

Check all connections in the path for corrosion which creates resistance and diminishes amount of current carrying capacity and creates heat. Any extra load? Higher wattage headlight lamps? That was my mistake, thought I would be smart and use 80 watt low beams, 3 days later my battery died too. Switched to low wattage LEDs, everything fine. Bought a used set of switches for some mods and the male pins in the multi connectors were a little corroded. I used an emery board (for fingernails) to sand contacts because it is stiff and can get on either side of contacts. Soldering will get rid of any resistance in the crimping of the pins.

 

When I was referring to soldering the connections, I meant clipping off any of the plug-in type connectors and just soldering the wires directly. There would be 6 total, if I recall.

Don't misunderstand me; a monkey with a chain saw is more mechanically inclined than I am. But, with the help of the guys here and watching a few YouTube videos, I was able to solder all my connections quite satisfactorily. I bought the stuff I needed for probably less than $20 (there are different watt soldering irons), picked up some of that heat shrink tube stuff, made a few practice "solders" on spare wire, and went to town on the bike (putting the tubing on before I began my soldering endeavor). Sure, maybe a pro could have done it in less than 60 minutes, but I decided to really take my time and make sure everything was right. The total install time for me on the R/R, VFRness, soldering all connections, etc. was probably about 4 to 4.5 hours.

I wouldn't consider this a difficult task, just a bit time consuming for guys like you and me that are green. But I can tell you that my voltage has remained rock solid over the last 2 years.

If you own a VFR, at some point you will become an electrical genius.

 

Sorry, I didn't know you meant getting rid of connectors, couldn't imagine trying to solder them!

If you replaced battery recently, then it is obvious that there is more of a load (CURRENT) while running than the stator can produce OR more likely the wiring is not passing the current produced.

I grew up around electronics, my father was an electrical engineer, so is my brother (who owns several companies) and I was a pro-sound/lighting contractor in the 70 & 80s then as a network/computer sales/installer till retiring, got a little experience!

 

So I finally had a chance to look at the connections. It looks like the connection from the R/R to the stator (the 3 yellow wire connection) was pretty melted. Took two sets of pliers, gloves and a lot of swearing and grunting to get them apart. Looking inside the connections, both looked blackened and all the plastic connections were melted. Everything else that I could see looked good. I assume now I should check the stator itself by clipping off the connection to the stator and doing the test to the 3 yellow wires that has been described elsewhere on the forums? If the stator ends up being good, then I'm not sure what the problem is. In that case, should I just solder the yellow wires together and be done with it? Or maybe get the VFRness (although honestly I'm still not even sure what that does)?

Thanks again for all the responses, great knowing this community is out there and that pretty much everyone that has owned a VFR has dealt with all of this at some point.

 

Ah, melted means there was resistance which means heat. Your toaster is a piece of high resistance wire (nichrome) that gets hot when voltage is applied.

You can bypass connector and solder two wires together and heat shrink, or you can use a blue butt splice, if wire is a real thick gauge, use a yellow butt slice and crimp with a good crimper, preferably not one of cheaper flat crimpers. If this solves problem, you can always go back and solder later.

 

Morades - you're almost home. Those crispy wires/plug were most definitely your problem. It happens often at the plugs, because that's where the greatest amount of heat takes place, versus being dispersed equally throughout the wiring. In other words, the plug is always the weakest link.

You definitely need to check your stator now as mentioned in the other link. You said above "...then I'm not sure what the problem is". The problem is your plug and wiring. Its fucked, to put it bluntly. And because your R/R could not provide the "proper" charge due to poor/inadequate wiring, that's potentially screwed too. So, assuming you stator is still good, then you need to get rid of any/all burnt wiring and presumably replace your R/R. The VFRness is an optional add on, but I'd recommend it.

I personally think the VFRness is a good product. Some don't like it, plenty swear by it, and there are always options if you don't want to do the VFRness (go read that same thread and you'll see). Basically, its some beefier wiring, and swaps out the main 30amp fuse for 2 twenty amp fuses while using a heavier gauge wiring (which means is doesn't heat up as easily, and therefore it won't burn/melt as easily). If you do end up using the VFRness, technically you wouldn't need to solder the connections because of the new design and heavier wiring. And many people don't. I just did it because A) lots of people recommended it and B) it made me feel better.

Here's a link to wiremybike.

http://www.wiremybike.com/vfr-specific-parts-1998-1999-vfr-parts-1998-1999-vfrness-p-272.html

Keep us posted on the Stator results.

 

+1 for Pliskin :thumb:

 

Thanks Pliskin, greatly appreciate the support. Assuming the stator is okay, should I see if they will replace my R/R under warranty or should i just get the vfrness and wiremybike's r/r and move on? I suppose since it is a plug/wiring problem, it is not really the fault of the R/R so I may be barking up the wrong tree with that. Man, can't believe Honda created such a weak point on an otherwise bullet proof bike. Pretty much every issue I've had with the bike over the 10 years I have owned it have been connected to the R/R and electrical system.

 

The VFRness is the way to go. Heavier gauge wiring always helps, but I really feel it is the connector and the poor contact resistance on the pins due to corrosion over time.
If you look at the wiring diagram, you will notice Honda doubles up the ground and hot wires and connectors coming out of the R/R for the DC voltage. Again heat is produced by resistance!!!

 

You can at least try to see if they warranty it. Got nothing to lose. If not, its pretty simple in my opinion. Pay the $200 (or whatever) and replace the R/R and put the VFRness in. This way at least you know that all the problems were addressed.

The VFRs had 2 major issues, in most everyone's opinion: The wiring dedicated to the stator and R/R, and the suspension. Its almost easier to forgive them on the suspension, considering the bike was probably designed around a bunch of dudes that are generally on the smaller size. But the R/R??? That just seems like a cheap way out that they took, and in return, we all pay for it. It wasn't until the 2006 model that Honda realized that just maybe something was wrong, and decided to move the R/R towards the front of the bike to allow more air and therefore better heat sinking. In an open letter to Honda: "Fuck you for using cheap ass wiring". Sincerely, VFR owners.

 

By the way, here's what mine looked like prior to installing the VFRness.

 

From RMSTATOR web page:

We have even included the opposite connector (main harness side) as we know these are often melted/corroded/defective and a major cause for repetitive electrical issues.

 

Quick little update. I ran the stator tests with the multi-meter and everything checked out. I then took the R/R off and ran a test I found on-line to check the R/R. It involves setting the multi-meter to the diode check setting (symbol on the meter looks like a triangle on a cross), then putting the positive prong to the negative wires coming out of the R/R and then touching the negative prong to the 3 stator wires. The numbers are supposed to come back in the 4-6 range. With one wire I got 5.64, both of the other wires gave a low reading almost near zero. I tried the same test on the R/R I just took off in October to replace the current one. I got 5.29 with all three stator wires. So now I'm thinking, (1) my new R/R is fried, (2) my old R/R might be okay and my battery died previously because the connection to the stator had begun to go bad, and (3) my current situation all happened because the connection from the stator to the current R/R finally went bad, melted and fried the R/R. So, I think I'm going to get the R/R kit from Roadstercycle.com and install it. Even if my old R/R might still be good and the new R/R possibly could be covered under warranty (although I think they will fight that tooth and nail), I'd rather put in a new system and be done with it. Will even try to solder the stator connections since that is what the Roadstercycle kit seems to call for. Again, thanks for help and suggestions, I'll post some pics when I finally get some time to do this. Cheers, Chris