I Think Some Enthusiasts Have Missed the Intent.

Just returned from a 120 mile Sunday AM ride on the VFR12 and some things fell into place for me about this bike.
As I've said on this forum, the latest VFR is a marvelous bike but I couldnt help but notice some threads that flame the bike for not being a sport bike or a pure tourer and that grouse about the range, seat, weight, cost, etc, etc. Some folks were looking for the next VFR generation to be just a newer/better version of what they had but after reading the statement of the head Honda executive for the VFR12 I noted that he said Honda were looking to create A WHOLE NEW genre of motorcycle with this bike. I think the term "Gentlemen's Express" or "Mature Sports Rider's Machine" probably comes closest to this genre.
This is why the MSRP was high from day one. Honda wasn't aiming the VFR12 at the 19 year old rider on his 1st or 2nd bike or the first time buyer, but at someone with the means and motorcycling experience to appreciate the technology offered. Remember, a fair amount of us grew up on Super 90s, CB77s or CB450s and we're still riding. We just have more money to spend and we can appreciate a sneaky fast bit of kit like the VFR12. We don't expect it to carve up twisty mountain roads like a sport bike (although the damn thing is not far from being able to do this and can embarrass a few crotch rocket riders in the curvy bits) and we either have or have had a bike that is built strictly for this and we want something more comfortable than say, my YZFR-1. The VFR12 inhales mileage like nobody's business and does it in a far more relaxed and unstressed fashion than some of this forum's members (who own a previous generation of VFR) can grasp. I maintained 75 to 77 mph (4500-ish rpm) today (and managed to collect a warning from a Texas Trooper for 77 in a 60 zone - thank God for grey hair, a CHL and a clean record) out in the Hill Country this AM and the darned VFR12 just never feels ruffled or buzzy and you can carve corners (PR3's help) with ease and aplomb. I've ridden FJRs and my C-10 (extensively) and they still have the typical inline 4 cylinder buzz that makes you look for the next higher gear that the VFR just doesn't have. That low rumble as you're bombing along disguises how quickly one is covering ground. It just never feels anything but relaxed although one is moving quite briskly. Love it !
I think some of the Vefercognisti have missed Honda's intent with the VFR 12.
Remember, Honda love to show off their technology. The RC166 and other '60s GP bikes, the CBX, CX500, Turbos, NR750, NSRs, RC30/45, RC51, Gold Wings, Rune, NR racers (oval pistons for crying out loud) and the list goes on and on.
IMHO, Honda builds certain bikes just to wave the "see what we can do" flag and not because they NEED to build a particular bike but because they CAN build a certain bike or roll out a certain technology. I think this is why they offered the DCT in this bike as it's a good platform for this technology. You'll be seeing more of it over time I suspect.
Dont get me wrong, Big Red looks to make a profit but they have large segments of their line-up (for both bikes and cars) that will provide that, freeing up their engineers and designers for advancing the technological envelope.
Did anyone note that the clock read out goes away after a few hours just to save the battery?
And that the reason the fans seem to come on more frequently (seen it commented on on this forum) has to do (I suspect) with keeping that magnificent motor within a fairly narrow temp range. And that the tolerances on the gas cap and seat latch are such that you must push down on the cap and down on the seat (while turning the key) to have them work as designed.
I think the VFR12 should be considered in the same genre as the Brough Superior, Vincent Black Shadow and modern Mercedes AMG V-12 coupes.
Not built for everyone, just some people who can afford and appreciate what they are riding/driving and that carved out a new class (for their time) of machinery.
No, Honda wasn't looking to make a new sport bike, they have CBRs for this and weren't looking to roll out a new tourer (see Gold Wings, FB-6s and STs) but wanted to create a new (albeit small) class of bike for the Boomers who are looking for this type of effortless performance and cutting edge technology.
The fact that you can now pick up a lightly used 2010 example (owned by someone who wasn't really sure what he was looking for) for $10K or so is just gravy and as it is said "in life, timing is everything."

Just my $0.02 (Flame suit switched on ?)

 

For whatever reasons, I am just glad that the "masses" didn't like the 1200. That allowed me to get a great piece of machinery for a very affordable price. No BMW K1300S for me. The VFR 1200 is the perfect machine for my current needs and riding style. And I will state that it handles the twisties just fine!

 

Good points. If the 1200 is not what you are looking for, then don't buy it. Stay with what you have or go out and buy what you are looking for. Personally I like my 6th gen. Maybe that is because that is all I have really ridden. I am just not quite struck by the looks of the gen 7 or the reduced tank capacity. Petty on my part maybe but that is just the way it is.

 

I never have understood the tank size complaint. 5 gallons of fuel and 35 to 40 miles per gallon is certainly sufficient for sport riding and on par with other bikes.

 

Hailwood- First awesome username- I have a picture of Mike the Bike up on my garage wall.

Second- Thanks so much for that outstanding write up of the bike. It is great- I am a Honda nut, so much so that a few years back I almost dropped my entire career to go be a material science engineer for Honda Jet in North Carolina. I would have taken a huge paycut, but I interviewed (Japanese engineers in the room and everything) and was offered the job but I just couldn't afford the paycut. That and a suit with/labcoat seemed a bit tightwound for an engineer like me. Employees do get a sweet discount by the way...

Anyway- your write up was great and much appreciated. I think I am going to wait for the big price drop on a 2013 VFR12 and pick one up- I want it in black.

Cheers!

 

I do a fair amount of long distance multi-week touring too so to increase the displacement yet decrease the fuel capacity just does not make sense to me.

 

Honda are an engineering firm at their heart and that must have been a tough decision to make.
Thanks for the kind words.
What really triggered my lifelong addiction was the shot of Mike on the 250cc 6 from behind leaning into a lefthander at the French GP. Worn through boot edges, tape and all.
A brand new VFR12 would be awesome. I slipped in a Z bomb on mine and for my tastes the fueling and drivability is exceptional so my new to me VFR suits. Besides, couldn't quibble with the price.
The range issue is no biggy for me.
My R-1 goes on reserve at about 150 miles and I could probably wring another 40 miles out of it. The C-10 is a supertanker with a 7.5 gallon tank so I'm ready to stop before it is (I'm trying to sell it). The Versys is typically 160-180 miles before going on reserve so the VFR12 isn't that far out of line. I got 40.6 and 42.5 mpg (post trooper warning) today at 2 top ups.
I mainly meant that I think the VFR12 was designed for a fairly small market niche, so there are many motorcyclists out there who don't see the attraction (until they get a chance to ride one).
Cheers.

 

Mike The Bike, I've been saying this for 3 tears albeit not so eloquently.
When I read that the VFR riders say these brakes are so much better than theirs, I'm wondering if they're stopping the Flintstone way. I've ordered a Brembo upgrade. Not so much for stopping power - nothing wrong with that - but for feel.

I came off a highly modded Aprilia Futura and that's a bike that's really hard to replace. Power, grunt, comfort, handling, awesome brakes, my bike had it all. So like many other Futuristi, I had a hard time finding a replacement. Rode the Tuono first gen for 3 years but kept using the Fut in winter and for ride-outs.
When the 3 years were up I bought what I thought would be a contender and made the mistake of getting a Triumph Tiger 1050. Why not a Sprint? Looks like a Futura but it isn't one. Didn't feel like getting an inferior substitute.

I threw mods at the Tiger from day one and after a year I rode the new Transalp 700 in Crete. I was so impressed with how much better that was than the previous one, I booked a test ride for a VFR1200. Tax write-off that year changed from 3 to 5 years so I had to get something I thought was capable of 5 years of high speed commuting. And the rest as they say, is history.
Most Futuristi agreed that this was a good replacement. I don't care about the fuel tank capacity and I understand why in the States that can cause a problem. But I do like high speed commuting (125 miles to reserve every time) and this bike does it just as well as my Aprilias. Only without ever redlining it in 6th. Always have about 1500 rpm left.

Contrary to other Futuristi I never liked the look of the Futura. I do like the looks of the Honda. I just got the Futura 'cause it rode better than it looked and I couldn't find anything else to replace the Falco. I also forgot I was getting older.

DCT might be something like 3D in movies: comes along every 10 years and then fades away but to Honda it's a business card. So is this whole bike.
As to the NR, I never saw oval pistons on any other bike or Ti-coating on windscreens for that matter. That's all fine.

I've gotten crap on here for wanting GP shift and other stuff but I do have experience and I don't get why anyone would try to put me off, even insult me from/for what I want. I don't think I saw that person who finally got GP shift on here anymore, demonstrating that he must have thought 'whatever' as the usual comments mounted. I just want to say thanks to him for pointing me in the right direction so I could fab GP shift in a clean and effective - non-rusting - way.

I think the Brough Superior is a tall order to fill but only history will tell. Excellent write-up by the way and goes to show what I've been saying all along: they should never have called this bike VFR. There are other alternatives. VST for instance. RCST? Whatever, just not VFR.

This bike isn't perfect. No bike is. And it was 17k euro when I bought it. That would be close to $22k now. So excuse me if I wanted better build quality for that kind of money from that kind of brand. Axial m/c's? Rubber brake lines? Rubber grommets that disappear after a dealer visit leaving the tank covers flapping in the breeze?
Preload adjuster/shock that just keeps on seizing for no apparent reason? Now the top box is wearing out?
No more dealers except one that charges 200% for parts and thinks shimmy is to be addressed by checking the head stock?
So not what I expected from a brand this big. My wife drives a Toyota and like the previous ones, it does what it says on the tin and it being a Prius it's even the least expensive in maintenance she's had.
That's pretty much what I expected from Honda build quality and service. I was even prepared to go with the herd like Voify said and see other VFR12's. But I don't see any.

I was a Honda nut from my first Honda (SS50) to my last (CBX750 - it blew up) and have always admired Honda while Soichiro-San was still around. After the CBX750 debacle - arguably the worst Honda I ever owned but it was used so I'll let that slide - I started commuting on other Japanese 600's.

Wouldn't want to trade the bike in for anything (affordable) though. There lies the next challenge in 2 years' time. What the heck am I going to replace this with?

Time will tell.

 

Before I comment, let it be known that I don't own a 1200, nor have I ever ridden one (haven't even sat on one and made vroom vroom noises) I have seen one and will say that it looks pretty good in the flesh. Although I've ridden bikes for most of my life, my 750 is my first "big" road bike. With that in mind, here are just my thoughts on what may have upset the VFR lovers.
The 1200 is not aimed at younger riders. Fair enough, but do you think todays 19 year olds are lusting after them? I have heard many of the older riders on this forum saying how they had first gen posters on their walls as kids.
Many 1200 owners have had, or still have other bikes for different purposes. The older VFR's were touted as the only bike you needed. I don't think many 1200 riders would think of commuting on their bike in the week and taking it to a trackday on the weekend. (again, just an uninformed opinion). While "A gentlemen's express" is all well and good, have Honda not perhaps made the 1200 a little TOO exclusive? You can't argue that although it was "the thinking mans bike" the older VFR's were also really good sellers and had a fairly universal appeal.
Lastly, will it become a modern classic? Only time will tell.
Please don't think I am knocking the 1200, just trying to give some answers/thoughts to your original question. Personally, I think its a great bike, but if I was to spend big money on a new bike I would look for a smaller displacement. I think for an allrounder 1200 is overkill.
As an aside, with regard to it's mile-munching abilities. In one of our local bike mags the tester said that his fastest ever cross country trip was on a VFR1200.

 

Gary, I too love riding the Viffer in the Hill Country. It is a sportbike that I can actually ride there from Houston and back, and enjoy every sweeper along the way.

I do have to take exception to what the Honda exec said about creating A WHOLE NEW genre of motorcycle with this bike. Honda did not create a new class; they benchmarked the K1200/1300S and offered their interpretation of the traditional BMW Gentlemen's Sporbike. They aped the Teutonic Express darn near feature for feature. They also copied the ergos, but tweaked it a bit to better fit 5'6" Hiro instead of 6'5" Hans. And they even tried to copy the BMW's MSRP, which is where they came up short. As nice as the VFR1200 is, it is still a Honda. Folks are just not prepared to pay BMW prices on a Honda. Not yet anyway.

 

Since Hailwood and Volfy are in my home state we need to plan a trip to the hill country some time. I'm riding down from Dallas in September (IIRC it's over the holiday) to ride "the Hill" and it would be as good opportunity as any. I won't have my suspension done by then but it's as good a time as any

 

When I first saw a seventh generation VFR I thought it was fugly and I would never own one. When I first saw one in person I thought it looked too much like a BMW. When I first rode one this past April I wanted one! The engine is fantastic and it handles well in any riding condition. It's the sport bike of sport tourers...for somebody who commutes on their bike and likes to take off for the weekend with the wife on the back and the open road in front, it's nearly perfect. In typical Honda fashion, it's a forgiving and capable bike. Every time I clean and adjust my chain I wish I had a shaft drive...

I haven't ridden the new K1300, but I have ridden a couple of K1200. The V1200 and K1200 are very similar bikes. I agree that the 1200 was built to take on the Bimmer, and I think it does a damn good job.

I've heard people say they would rather get a FJR or ST1300 than a 7th gen...obviously these poeple haven't ridden a V1200. These are very different bikes. The VFR wants to go fast, whereas a FJR will go fast but is much happier on the highway and not necessarily on the backroads.

Honda, and most other manufacturers, doesn't build a V4 superbike and haven't for years. Get over it people! The VFR hasn't been used as Honda's homologation racing platform for years now and people are still mourinng that it seems.

 

Cornerexit, hit me up when the time comes. I'll see if I can get a kitchen pass. My riding season officially ended on the 4th of July weekend - too darn hot. Some time in Sept is when I usually start riding regularly again.

 

gotta agree with bryan88 on the fact the VFR wasn't offered in anything but a 1200. Honda sold various sizes overseas while the 750/800 hit more of the happy-medium as far as displacement here in the states. My first experience with the RVF400 was in Japan, a great little bike and there you didn't need big displacement as much as parking space. I wished they brought the same bike here, I would love to have the 400, (it was still a v4) as opposed to the l-twin CBR500, in a 21st century platform. The 1200 is just too big. Insurance goes up significantly after 1000cc.

IMHO, Honda gambled and lost. Similarly, I was upset with my '09 CBR 600 for having only slight differences and upgrades made in over 6 years (not sure) and the 1000 just looking so much sicker and with better features than the 600. would've went with a used 1000 but I think I made the right choice with another viffer. P.S. I don't like the new 600 CBR nosejob (same look essentially) and hope the CBR fans are giving the company grief over the latest Honda fail.

 

Most of the bitching about the 1200 was done by dudes who had never ridden one or even seen one. Looks like that hasn't changed much in three years.

 

Perfed leather, early morning (stands up at 7:30am), and a cooling shirt (add H2o) and good to go

 

That is incorrect. Insurance rates are based on a multitude of factors....state, age, driving/riding record, history of accidents, married, single, credit, etc. When I added my 1200 to my policy it required an additional $17 monthly premium. I wouldn't call that significant, I'd call it insignificant.

 

I've been steadily building up tolerance for the heat. With Cycle Gear's HeatOut long sleeve and long johns, plus mesh gear, I'm okay up to 95F or so. When it gets consistently above that, it just feels too much like work, which riding should never feel like. This article helped a lot: http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/ironbutt_1002_62-66_Hot.pdf

Down here, I pretty much ride all through "winter", so a couple of months out of the year is not bad... compared to 6-8 months off-season up north, I remember.

As for insurance, different companies can have widely varying ways of caculating premiums. For example, I have Progressive, who rates the Ninja 1000 the same as litre sports like ZX10R and S1000RR, but I've heard other ins co's rates it closer to other STs like FJR. I always check insurance quote before considering a bike, now I may have to check across different ins co's.

 

Funny that as the 800 is just too small.

:smile:

 

I like my 1200. The engine is outstanding, the range is fine for me. I don't mind stopping more often to enjoy the scenery anyways. The brakes are good.

My only complaint has ever been the front fork. I wonder if a B.P.F. from a 2013 CBR1000RR would fit on it (just for fun and sticking with my Honda love). I know it would be easier and cheaper to just put some springs in it and some better oil. Probably will when it has a few more miles on it! I just miss having that other "clicker" on the fork to fine tune the thing better!