my 1995 has problems

The other day I was moving my 1995 around and was putting in the barn for a few days when I dropped it in the dirt on its right side. This morning I tried to crank it up, and it wouldn't hardly crank. I think my start or run switch on the handlebar might be wearing out, but that's another story. Anyways, I finally got the engine turning over in the start process. It seemed as if I had flooded the carbs when I dropped it. while trying to crank, I heard a loud metal to metal clank then it quit altogether. Also of note, my neutral switch doesn't work so I can't start the bike with the kickstand down, and that was also a new problem this morning. When I tried starting it again, I could hear the starter trying to work, but the engine wouldn't turn over. I eventually got it started. but it was rough and sounding like it was missing. ran up the road to a stop sign, it was horrible like it was missing bad in the low rpms, but in the highs it was okay, at the stop sign, she died. after setting for a minute, I started noticed a strong fuel smell. It took a few more tries to get it started and I limped it home, but this time, it was missing all the way up the rpm range. at home there was again a strong fuel smell, and I think I lost 1/2 a gallon of gas, in 3 miles. Any one know anywhere I can start? Everything is stock.

 

Drain the tank and pull it off out of your way. Open the drain screws on the carbs and catch/measure the amount of fuel in the carbs. It is likely to be a large amount. Your float needles are likely stuck open and you now have extra "oil" in the crankcase, aka gas wash down the cylinders. Then the carbs need to be removed and cleaned. The oil needs to be drained and replaced, etc. Do a search on cleaning carbs for a good pictoral on how to do it.

 

I would start by pulling the plugs and checking for signs of damage. There is no sense in wasting anymore time and money on an engine you may have just toasted.

 

There is great truth in the karazy man's words--

after you do what i mentioned above then you should pull the spark plugs and test for proper compression. A bent valve or connecting rod due to hydrolock of a fuel-filled cylinder or crankcase will cause damage such that it will not start or run properly without repair work.

 

While I haven't had time yet to look into my problems, I took out the oil dipstick a few minutes ago and it definitely reeks of fuel. I have fuel in my oil system. how much harm does gas washdown the cylinders do, assuming everything else is okay? I will be running a compression check sometime.

 

Fuel can get into the crankcase when you drop the bike due to carb overflow, not any piston ring problem.

 

Your problem will depend on what happened when you heard that loud clank and may be magnified by the attempted starts and 3 mile ride.

That is why I suggested you check the spark plugs first. If a piston has contacted a plug, it will be easy to tell. I didn't think a compression test was a good idea, because it seems that we can assume that some physical damage has been done. Any further rotation of the engine will only cause more damage.

To get an idea of my concerns, Google hydro lock damage images.

 

I didn't think a piston could contact a plug unless you had Rods that were too long. Metal doesn't exactly stretch and pistons travel only 100% as far as the crank and rods will allow. If a piston doesn't contact the plugs during normal operation, it won't any other time...am I wrong here?

 

In normal conditions, you are correct. If the connecting rod is broken, although they usually do just bend, due to hydro lock, it is the easiest way to check, without tearing down the engine. Also if a valve breaks off, it will probably hit the plug. You can also measure the travel of the pistons, which helps to determine if the rods are bent.

The only other option is to tear the engine down.

 

***UPDATE***

I finally got around to doing a compression test. My numbers were quite low, but the bike has 30K on the odo, and it was done cold because I was afraid to start it. I did the check by taking out all the plugs, hooking up a compression tester and cranking the bike for at least 6-8 revolutions per cylinder. I did #3 twice and #1 first so the piston would get rid of all the fuel in #4.

#1 cylinder: 125psi
#2 cylinder: 105psi
#3 cylinder: 125psi
#4 cylinder: 120psi

The funny thing here is, #4 cylinder was the one full of fuel when I opened them up ( even the spark plug was wet) and i'm thinking it's the cylinder that locked on me. I definitely have fuel in the oil, as I mentioned earlier. #2 worries me a little. What can I assume about the carbs and the engine based on this information? I have never ventured into this kind of mechanics before. I have always stuck to brakes, tires, oil, filters, chains, etc, you know, small things. my best guess leads me to believe that I should finish removing the carbs and do the steps someone mentioned earlier abuot cleaning the carbs, making sure I don't have any needles stuck open, flush and refill the oil system, maybe new plugs since I think #4 is more than likely fouled out, and put it all back together.

**edit** ran it again because I remembered I wasn't holding open the throttle.

 

So I put it all back together yesterday after getting the carb back from the shop. Ran it for a few minutes up and down the road, was still not wanting to run on all cylinders in sub 2500 rpms. This morning I went out to crank it up and the engine locked up on me again. More fuel in the cylinder. But it was number 3 cylinder this time instead of number 4. ejected the fuel, added seafoam to the gas because I have sediment in the lines, etc, Put it all back together again and ran it and noticed another problem....

My stator connector, right side of the bike, male end, was smoking and completely melted away, wires were extremely hot even after a 2 minute run. the female end was perfectly fine. Charging voltage was at 14.5 (give or take) volts at ~5000 rpms. The only thing I can figure is that a couple months ago when I needed an emergency jump, the only person around was a pickup truck and it fried my stator, or started too. I have ordered a stator and R/R just to be safe.

And thanks for pointing out, Kennybobby, that I am clueless when it comes to carburetors and supporting equipment, or lack thereof. But I was only assuming when the guy at the shop said my carb pressure was good and there was still fuel in the carb after I gave it to him bone dry a couple days earlier. I won't mess with carbs. I'm afraid to. to much to go wrong with them. I leave that for the pro's.

 

Sorry to hear about the latest issue, but at least you caught the connector before it did any damage. The terminal lugs are the root of all evil in the stator and RR connectors. A sliding electrical contact, especially on AC, is not reliable.

Maybe you can put out an APB or BOLO for someone local that can help you get the carbs sorted out--obviously the hacks or pros at your shop didn't do you any favors. You could contact Squirrelman on this forum and there are also other folks on here that know how to properly rebuild carbs.

 

Pros or not, I called and asked about it happening a second time. They offered to go over the carbs again on them if I thought it was a problem on their end. It's not easy for shops when you do some work yourself and try to get them to do other work you're not qualified for or don't want to do. As soon as my R/R and stator come in hopefully tomorrow or Saturday, I'll try to crank it again. But for now, I am hoping maybe the seafoam sitting everywhere will help clean out any sediments or trash I may have in the lines, or still in the carbs. I don't know. Some swear by it, some swear at it. Right now, I'm just cursing the bike.

 

I'd be happy to help with the carbs, so PM me if you're interested.

 

thanks for the offers, I will let you guys know when/if I need more help with the carbs. But on other areas, I wanted to make sure I have my facts straight after a brief search on stator and r/r failure. One can cause the other to go bad and it goes both ways, right? My stator came in yesterday and I have already replaced that, and I removed my old R/R which I discovered is for a Honda CB 400. Is that bad, or are they interchangeable? Also, along with my stator plug being completely melted away, my r/r plug was also showing signs of extreme heat. the plastic case around the connectors seems to be serviceable, so I will try to cut and splice some new connectors on the existing wires after I trace the wires back and forth to ensure no other areas of the wires are melted. My R/R was supposed to come in yesterday as well, but someone has screwed up and instead of being out for delivery as the tracking number said, it ended up ~200 miles away in another sorting facility. Hopefully I will get it Monday.

This is what's left of my stator plug


And this is what my R/R plug looks like

 

Three phase alternator = th0se three yellow wires, if either one of those touch eachother while the bike is running, your facked!

Nice mechanical carnage pictures, thanks for sharing, just keep plugging along and develope some good soldering skills, because the plugs as some of the people above sed, are the weak link and bolox up the flow of elecricity...Cheers.

 

Almost any old RR will work on any old bike--they are simple 3-phase rectifier bridges with some sort of voltage control to not overcharge a lead-acid battery, i.e. ~14.4 volts.

That row of three in the RR connector is the Stator yellow wires input into the RR--and you can see that is the most heat affected area. The spade lugs are an evil invention by someone too lazy to solder. Especially for AC voltage the lugs end up being a high-resistance junction that gets worse over time as more heat causes the lugs to loosen. You can use solder and forget it, or use lugs and watch it slowly burn over time...

 

And now my package with my R/R in it says "Undeliverable as addressed" What is going on?! The guy who shipped it used the correct address...how come my stator came in friday using the same address but my R/R won't? I'm getting tired of watching my bike fade away in the garage under the dust.

 

Problem is, ever since Rutherford was credited for the scientifik discovery of the electron, they have been far too small to see, so when they do misbehave, we can't find them, is why.

It's the system that's f'dup, Bunky, and there ain't hardly nuttin u can do ! Capitalism only works for a few, and the rest of us are riding 25 year old superannuated clunkers, as i rudely discovered when the Triumph demo truck swang thru town and i got a ride on a new bug-eyed Triple 850. On my ride home, practically everything on the trusty *1240 Hawk (30k miles) felt so inferior and loose. I still love my old beater, and can't think of even one reason why i might think i need more hp on city streets, roads, avenues, boulevards, detours, side streets, alleys or other paved surfaces. Could the modest rwhp be one of the Hawk's best features easy-to ride-wise ?? More power would just get me in more trouble sooner.


***********************


SORRY, my deteriorating mentality + drinkin had me thinkin randomly.....I know NOW this is 4 VFRs. But it also applies. arty2:

 

Only way fuel can end up in the cylinders is if you can't be bothered turning the bloody tap off. You can't rely on float needles to stop the fuel flow. If you can't turn the tapoff fit a fuel shutoff solonoid. simples