PCV Ignition Module fixed mine.

i did some quick research,...the Bazzaz TC cuts the ignition pulse to reduce wheel spin...i think the factory TC's use this method too, regardless of TBW
http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/videos-side

 

Well yeah, you can't expect bazzaz to redesign their whole product for a few bikes that have tbw, when retarding ignition will still net the desired result.

 

Sorry but yes, you are mostly wrong, yes the TBW (possibly) could be closing slightly, I haven't measured the voltages there. BUT, it is not programmed into the ECM, JUST for 1&2 to "pull back the throttle" there are other factors involved and the RETARDED IGNITION IS how it is done, end of story!!!

 

Bugger it, I give up!

 

Wow dude is it that time of the month or what? Just trying to help out. Jeeze relax.

 

I'm not trying to dis credit you or anything, just trying to cover all bases.
Let me know when you get the tps voltages figured out.
Btw I think what you are doing with the vfr1200 is great stuff, just try not to attack everyone that has a new or different idea than you on what might being going on here, or at least hold off a little until you get her on a dyno.

 

Depending on how the intake is designed, the same effect can happen with any engine. Ever seen a race car or dragster engine idle with large bore carburetors? I had a coworker that raced junior dragsters with his son and I helped him unload the race car a few times. It was next to impossible to crawl with that beast in gear. I had to keep working the clutch. He would joke that race engines don't idle worth a sh!t, and God designed them that way. The large carb bore (or large throttle body diam.) are great for volumetric efficiency at high RPM when the engine needs to suck large volumes of air. At low flow rates, the low intake air velocity makes the engine buck and surge.

Any engine - regardless of cc size - can have this problem. I fly RC airplanes and have converted 25-50cc weedwacker and chainsaw engines to fly giant scale models. We usually switch to a larger bore Walbro carb to get better RPM out of the little gassers, but we have to be careful not to overbore them. Otherwise, the same thing happens - engine makes great top end power but won't idle properly and transitions poorly.

It's unfortunate you have to take my comments that way. Oh yeah... some of us are secure enough about ourselves that we have no problem with a little self-depecating humor.

 

Yes it probably is, I apologise profusely, na, not really though didn't mean to offend you. Someone else's post got me started and it built from there. TBW is a (relatively) small component that in the end receives it's information from the ECM. IT ALONE DOES NOT control the throttle. To quote HONDA,
"Acceleration control function:

When the rider operates the throttle grip, the ECM controls the throttle valve opening based on signals from the TCP and other sensors"

So if you crack the throttle wide open in 1st gear it will eventually go wide open, yet the power delivery is restricted by:-
1: the GPS telling the ECM it is in 1st gear.
2: road speed.
3: IGNITION RETARD

The sensors used by the TBW via the ECM are, MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure), ECT sensor (engine coolant temperature), GEAR POSITION SENSOR and REAR WHEEL SPEED SENSOR, as well as the TCP (throttle control sensor). (Poor mans traction control). The ECM gets a signal from the GPS and retards the ignition, in 1st & 2nd gear-TO REDUCE POWER. Bazzaz would not have gone to the trouble of making the ZBomb if it was not necessary.
Again quoting Honda:-
"Acceleration Control function:

When the rider operates the throttle grip, the ECM controls the throttle valve opening based on signals from the TCP and other sensors."

I can assure you that altering the advance curve in 1st & 2nd makes a world of difference, (without a dyno) and I will "attack" (usually nicely) people that have no idea about what is between the throttle and the rear wheel and make ridiculous statements. And again I am not referring to you.

 

Sorry Volfy but what you saying does not relate to the VFR1200, it will & does idle smoothly at 1000RPM, if as in the case of a dragster or a race bike etc. where the throttle bodies ARE oversize plus huge cams etc. you are right. But the VFR1200 does NOT have over sized T/B or cams, in fact the T/B are undersized as are the exhaust headers. What you said was so far off base I saw red, we are talking about road vehicles here, road going motorcycles and cars just don't suffer or shouldn't from what you are describing. They screwed up on this one.

 

I would agree that the effect I described is probably not the ONLY cause, and may not even be the primary cause. Fueling could be part of it. Perhaps even the shaft gear lag, though the VFR1200's shafty is markedly better than all other shafties I've ridden, including the C14. It almost feels to me like the slipper clutch might even be in on it.

What I am pretty sure is that bucking and surging at very low crawling speeds is not due to the 1st-2nd gear timing retard Honda programmed in. I've played with timing advance/retard in all kinds of engines, including the RC gasser engines and the old watercooled VWs with CIS that still had distributors that you can adjust timing. Retarded spark timing hurts power and can increase engine heat load, but it doesn't make the engine buck and surge. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

IMO the drive train lash and noise is the CV joints and dampers in the drive shaft, exasperated by EPA leanness and pretty high overall gearing ... the bike does top out first gear at almost 65mph !!! and around 95 in second !!!... the best cure i have found for this is the Scala G4 with some SiriusXM cranked up !!! works for me

 

LOL! I like it. The best way to fix the problem is not let it bother you.

Like I said before, I am fine with the VFR1200's power delivery as is. Not perfect, but I've had much worse.

 

i hated the power delivery before the z-bomb...love it with z bomb ZFi K&N and Akro.... huge improvement !!!!

 

funny my scala G4 is out for repair right now and i rode the bike without music on for one of the few times since i got it...i really noticed the drive train noise...ha ha

 

Hi Ishark, thanks for your usefel input, I do like it except we no get SiriusXM here we are in a 3rd world country pretending to be something were not.

 

the mp3 player in my phone works just as well....Itunes on shuffle and you're all set...G4 handles phone, GPS, bike to bike and rider to passenger comm and music through bluetooth

 

It sounds like you r a sales rep for Scala, we, the people, r not that backward............just the comedians we have for politicians. I do have one and can use it.
still doesn't solve the sometimes life threatening VFR1200 boogie.

Cheers Rusty

 

not saying that you're backwards...geez lighten up...just giving my review for those who are not too familair with the helmet bluetooths that are available...just commenting on the one that i am familiar with.............. and,...life threatening ???

 

Hi Volfy, sorry 'bout last night, middle of the night in agony whilst replying, long story, anyways you didn't make your point that well.
There r I believe 3 design faults?? or F/UP's:-
1:as the people who have gone down the fueling path know, it does make a difference, no doubt!!
2:also the people that have traveled the RESTRICTED IGNITION ADVANCE path absolutely know, it DOES make a difference. ZBomb and other means DO work.
3:the large lash in the drive output mechanism with the slightest of surges does make a clatter, 100%, I have been shot down in flames for suggesting this before but it is true. Slipper clutch? by slipping and then dragging u mean? Maybe the 4th piece of the puzzle.
My first shaftie so can't comment, though I have heard that, dare I say it, the late big beemer shafties r better. Always thought they were for strange folk.otstir:

IMHO the dampers yes, the CV joints no, if you hold the output shaft, there is next to no lash from there to the diff. If you don't hold the output shaft there is BIG lash between the diff and box, so must be the output shaft damper mechanism, looking at it, who knows, stronger spring, 2 way spring, F'd If I know.

It can be dangerous, so it is hard to not let it bother you, especially if (pre tweaking) it surged or died mid apex or in a roundabout, do u guys have roundabouts??

Initially didn't bother me as I had a 2bro, K&N on from day one, but after a while it was getting ugly, dropping it through no fault of my own P'd me off big time, just coughed & surged mid apex which is not ideal. In 2nd at lowish revs so reasonably soft off! Fitted a PCV & some internal mods, not long after the Autotune. Way better, tried the ZBomb, helped but not what I wanted so to the PCV Ignition Module, YES!!!