Gen 6 very strange starting issue.....R/R going bad?

So I've only noticed this happening right after I take the bike off the battery tender. I turn the key the FI light does it's thing, then I hit the starter button. The bike tries to turn over one quick time and stops, then I can hear an electrical wurring noise, but she wont start. Then if I pull the clutch in go up a gear and back to N, still nothing. I do that same thing again, she fires right up like nothing was wrong.

What the hell is this about, anyone got any ideas?

 

What's the condition of your battery? Will it start ok when its been run for a while and good and warm? Mine would reset the clock and trip odometers every once and a while from the low voltage while cranking. When I stopped for gas, I found it would not have enough juice to crank it over. Next morning it would start again. New battery fixed mine. Couldn't believe how much faster the thing spins over with the new one! Good luck.

 

It doesn't do it after riding, only right after being taken off the tender, thats what is so weird.

She starts fine every other time

 

The R/R is only used to convert the AC voltage from the stator to DC current to charge the battery so if you have a full battery the bike should still start even with the R/R unplugged. Maybe due to a weak battery or your starter motor may be going bad. You can test the weak battery theory by jump starting the bike off your car battery but MAKE SURE THE CAR IS NOT RUNNING WHEN YOU ATTEMPT THIS!!!!

Rollin

 

I guess it could be a weak starter motor. It's just really strange that after a few seconds it will start up fine.

 

Okay let me get this straight BeeDeeGee.

Key switch in the On position,FI system goes through it's diagnostic,and the fuel pump primes. You press and hold the starter button in and you physically hear the starter engage.
The starter then starts to crank the engine over but suddenly it stops cranking the engine while you're still pressing and holding the starter button in and you hear a loud whirring noise.

Coupla questions for you then. When you released the starter button did you hear that whirring noise wind down? If so,just before that whirring noise stopped did you hear a coupla clicks or clanks?

If you did then it sounds to me more like your starter clutch is simply not engaging properly everytime like it should.

Usually a symptom of a weak battery is that you press the starter button and the starter might engage for a second or two but then it drops out and you hear a series of loud audible clicks while you're still pressing the starter button in.
The battery simply just doesn't have enough juice to crank the starter over.

On the other hand the symptom of a starter clutch that's slipping/not engaging properly is that you'll actually hear the starter start to crank the engine over but suddenly it stops cranking the engine and as long as you're still pressing the starter button in you hear a loud whirring sound.
That loud whirring sound you're hearing is the starter whizzing away because the starter clutch is not engaged.

 

^^^ yeah it sounds like the starter clutch possibly then. There are no pops, when I hold the button down I get one quick crank then a whirring sound. What I don't get is why it has only happend after taking if off the tender. It cranked fine after riding into work, sitting there all day. I came out the office and she fired right up.

Next question, how hard/how expensive is this gonna be to fix LOL

 

Well that's the thing about a worn/slipping starter clutch BeeDeeGee,sometimes it works perfectly fine and sometimes it doesn't.

I could throw a possibility out there for you though. Think about it for a second you just topped up your battery on the charger,your battery is now nearer to it's peak performance. What if that little bit of extra performance initially spins up your starter motor just a coupla RPM's faster than it normally would and doesn't give your worn starter clutch that extra nanosecond it needs to engage properly.
You never know,it's a possibility.

With the right tools it's really not all that hard. Coupla beer job tops.

Park the bike on it's kickstand,drain the oil,pull the right side lower fairing panel,remove the clutch cover,put the bike in gear and stand on the rear brake pedal then remove the bolt that secures the pulse generator rotor and starter clutch assembly,slide the starter clutch assembly off the shaft,then take it apart with a pair of snap ring pliers and inspect it. It really is as simple as that.

Here's a breakdown pic of the starter clutch assembly.

Part number 5 the flange,part number 6 the bearing assembly,part number 14 the circlip,and part number 4 the drive gear make up the starter clutch assembly. Part number 8 is the pulse generator rotor.

The bearing assembly is most often the only part that needs to be replaced but closely inspect the machined surfaces on the flange and drive gear for any pitting or galling caused by the bearings grinding on them. If either of those two parts are damaged they'll need to be replaced as well.

Part number for the bearing assembly is 28125-MW4-003. Cost is about $94.00
Part number for the flange is 28115-MCW-000. Cost is about $72.00
Part number for the drive gear is 28110-MBG-000. Cost is about $140.00
Part number for the clutch cover gasket is 11394-MCW-010. Cost is about $18.00
Make sure to pick up a small tube of Yamabond 4 sealant and use a little bit of it on that clutch cover gasket.

 

Thanks a lot man. That makes sense to me. I think I'll just hold out until my oil change in another 1k miles and inspect it then. Would it be OK to let it go that long? I ride the bike a lot. I assume I would need a new gasket it I open it up too right?

I read on here somewhere that sometimes it's just the springs in the starter clutch that are worn out? I'm hoping I dont have to buy a whole new assembly, the bike only has 8k miles.

 

Yeah you should prolly be okay. The starter clutch on my Ducati 900SS was slipping for about a year before I ever got around to taking care of it.

Best to replace the clutch cover gasket,but if you do decide to reuse it at least use some of the Yamabond 4 sealant on it when you go to install that cover.

Sometimes yeah and sometimes no BeeDeeGee,gotta get in there first and inspect to see what you need.
Oddly enough the fix for my slipping Ducati starter clutch bearing assembly was a spring that you removed from a common oil seal. Go figure.

 

Great info. I appreciate all the help. I'll post some pics when I get in there for anyone else's future reference.

 

When I had startup problems, it was the battery. When it was warm I had no problems but when the temperature dropped, I always had to try starting 2-3 times. The symptoms were quite close to what you were describing. Borrow a battery from someone and test it out

 

Well I've also noticed a loud pop now when I try to start it....always right after coming off the tender.

If I don't let the bike sit for a while before trying to crank it in the morning it does the same thing, but a couple of time there has been a loud pop that comes from the engine! Like metal slapping together really hard. If I give the bike a minute or two it will then fire right up, then fires up fine again after being in a parking lot.


When I was at the track, toward the end of the day the bike was slow to start, it was really hot outside.....

Maybe I need a new starter clutch and battery?

 

Probably a neutral switch or starter lockout component, dirty switch contacts ?

 

I just had the same problem. It was my battery.
I put a meter on it and got 13.2V so I dismissed the battery as the problem.
I changed the starter, the starter relay and changed out all the 30A fuses just to be safe and nothing.
My symptoms: The lights came on, the fuel pump primed, when I hit the start button the lights dimmed and the relay clicked once. Naturally I thought it was the starter motor or the relay.
After swapping them and the problem didn't go away I read somewhere that even of the battery voltage is fine the cranking amps may not be. I had another battery in my Ducati so I swapped it in and the VFR fired right up. PISSED!
But I found the problem.
Good luck on yours.

 

Rebuilt starter with brushes on my 80,000 mile 91 with good success, it had a hot start problem. I did a starter clutch on my 93 with all the new oem items. Pita compared to the Kawasaki one i did which comes as a complete unit. Cheers

 

have you tested the charging system output across the battery terminaLS with the engine running ?? There should be no need for a charger if the output is good AND the battery is healthy. anything less than ABOUT 12.6 to 12.2vdc at rest might show a WEAK BATTERY. WHAT DOES YOURS SHOW ?? Wait at leaast 2 hours after charging to test battery voltage.

 

And if you have a volt meter fitted you can see exactly what your battery voltage is dropping to while you are cranking the motor