Dry Cell Battery in a Sportsbike

So, after three years of service from my cheapy Energizer battery, it finally gave out yesterday morning. Turned the key & hit the button... barely had enough power to turn the crank.

Hooked it up to the tender and the red light just kept on flashing. Fluid levels are normal, she just won't take a charge anymore.

Kinda glad in a way, because I had an issue last year with this battery where I had left the battery on the tender overnight after topping it off with fresh acid (always have a bottle on hand - just in case), and even though I let the battery set for 12 hrs after adding the juice it boiled over and made a mess on my right side exhaust pipes :frown:

Since then I've been looking into dry cell batteries to replace it with. They're much more expensive, but the reviews that I've seen online have been promising. Zero maintenance. Zero weather deterioration (a major plus in the desert heat). And double the lifetime of conventional batteries.

Just curious as to whether any of you had any experience with a dry cell running in your sportsbikes?

I'm looking at ordering the Ballistic EVO2 12 Cell (Batteries - Ballistic Performance Components) right now, and wanted the groups opinions on the matter.

 

Personally, I don't have a dry cell in my bike but I talked to a guy at the gas station late last summer that had a 2004 VFR800 and he had one in his bike. He said it was expensive at $259 (everything is costly up here in Canada) but he said it was well worth the expense. My bike always cranks over well, or I thought it did, but this guys bike fired right up on the first crank. He said it used to take a few 3 to 8 revolutions to fire up with the last battery he had but he said the dry cell cranks right up first try, every try. Not to mention he says the weight difference is amazing.

 

I've heard the quick starting thing, myself. It'll be interesting to see how quickly it starts after install. My '86 usually takes about 4-8 turns before she cold-fires IF the battery is fresh and IF it's not below 45 degrees. Once it gets that cold it takes twice as long and I have to add a bit of finess with the choke and throttle to get her to fire... she really HATES the cold weather, which I guess means it's a good thing we're in Arizona and she only has to deal with the cold for 3 months of the year.

The weight thing isn't really an issue, but I'll admit that shedding 8 lbs or so might make a difference since I can't seem to do the same with my gut.

 

Yeah my bike isn't fond of the cooler temps either, of course our idea of cool right now is 19*F. Canada, you know..........
Currently my bike is sequestered in the garage under a blanket and bike cover wishing the winter would end and the sun would come up again.

I know what you mean about the gut thing, the older I get the heavier I get.

 

Haven't you read the manual?

Just in case someone reads your thread and doesn't know better...

Never add ACID to a battery, only use distilled WATER to top up a low level.

that's likely why your battery boiled over, too.

 

I'm well aware of the acid adding no-no, KB, but thanks for bringing it up.

The instruction manual, that thing that nobody ever reads when they buy something and think they know exactly what to do, specifically stated to keep the remaining fluid from the original container and use it top off the battery levels in case the fluid evaporates to a level below recommendations followed by a period of not less than 12 hrs before use or charging. It does also state that in lieu of the original fluid, distilled water should be used.

I'd post a pic of the pamphlet that stated this, but that went in the trash with the original box 3 years ago.

 

I am running a Ballistic Battery. I use an 8 cell battery in my Gen 6, so I can't imagine why you'd need a 12 cell battery.



The 8 cell battery is literally 1/3 the size of the shitty OEM unit and Ballistic deliberately pack their batteries in thick foam which you can use to stop the new one from moving around in your now-cavernous battery compartment.

I definitely recommend you buy a Ballistic battery!

 

I have a Shorai in my 5th Gen. It is an awesome battery and they give you a lot of high quality foam that you can use/cut as needed. I have had zero issues and have no need for a battery tender over the winter.

So far, it has been spot on and that includes a 1250 mile trip around Lake Michigan last summer.

 

Living in Cali., a dry cell will be my choice for replacement when my old school Yuasa goes tits up.

Jose

 

I'm planning to install a 3 port socket for charging my cell, mp3 player and camera while riding. Might even consider installing a GPS unit before making the big NAPA Coastal run, so I want to be sure that it will be able to easily power everything and still be able to crank in cooler temps. That's why I was planning the 12 cell instead of the 8 cell that's recommended.

It's not that much of an overkill, as the 12 cell is suggested for 1000 cc sportbikes and larger quads. Size wise it's only 1/2" thicker than the 8 cell, and still much smaller than the OEM wet cells.

I spoke with my buddy Logan over at Ural Motorcycle Accessories for Honda Motorcycle Apparel Used Yamaha Suzuki New Kawasaki Parts and he was planning to put a Ballistic in his Valkyrie so he's ordered ones for each of us. I'll be picking it up from him on Tuesday or Wednesday, so we'll see if there's a noticeable difference once I get it installed.

 

You'll notice a difference, alright.

 

Isn't that an alternator function more than a battery function? If the alternator can't keep up with the draw, it doesn't matter how big the battery is, surely?

 

No, actually it's a 70/30 split between the battery and the alternator. The battery's primary role is to provide the power to turn the starter and fire the ignition coils until the engine starts. The alternators primary function is to keep the system running at a set voltage and tend the battery back to full charge post-ignition.

However, that is for a standard setup on a system with no components other than the coils/plugs, lighting and battery draw. When you add in accessories that draw more amperage during normal riding above and beyond the alternators set output, that extra draw will put a drain on the alternator and eventually it will overheat and fail. That's the reason that people install a secondary battery when beefing up their car audio systems with 1500+ watt amps. You'll notice that in luxury vehicles the more extras and accessories that are available, the bigger the output of the alternator - and on smaller vehicles, especially base models with hardly any accessories, the alternator has a much lower output.

In lieu of an alternator upgrade, you can beef up the size/performance level of the battery or add a secondary to prevent the system from draining below standard and putting the extra strain on the alternator.

Not saying that me adding a phone charger, mp3 charger, running a camera and gps unit will put a huge strain on the system, but who wants to take any chances on a 26 year old alternator, right?

 

I'm not sure I follow you. - If you are drawing more than the alternator can put back into the battery, won't you still end up with a flat/dead battery eventually?

 

I can't explain it better than this (copy/pasted from TeamElectronics . org)

Charging System Basics

There is a great deal of misunderstanding regarding the operation and upgrading of a vehicle charging system. In this section we will cover the basic operation of the charging system, as well as some recommendations for upgrading the charging system.

[TABLE="width: 95%"]

[TD="class: subtitle"]Alternators
[/TD]

[TD="class: textcell"]
An alternator is designed to accomplish a couple of tasks in a vehicle. One task is to keep the vehicle battery charged so that it will start the engine. The other task is to supply current to the vehicles accessories when the engine is running. This holds true unless the alternator’s voltage drops to a point of equal potential to the battery. At this point, the battery will also begin to deliver current. As long as the alternator is at a higher potential than the battery, the alternator is the vehicles main power source. This also means that if the alternator is at a higher potential, the battery is nothing but a load on the alternator. Each battery on average will consume about 5-10 amps of current from the alternator just to stay charged.

Think of the alternator as a pump that makes water that is at a higher level (potential ) than the water in the battery. At this point the alternator pumps the battery with water (current).

​

[/TD]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 95%"]

[TD="class: subtitle"]Current Flow (Alternator Off)
[/TD]

[TD="class: textcell"]
Shown in the diagram below is the current flow with the engine off. Notice that current flows from the battery to the vehicle accessories. The alternator supplies nothing and is essentially out of the circuit.

​

[/TD]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 95%"]

[TD="class: subtitle"]Current Flow (Alternator On)
[/TD]

[TD="class: textcell"]
Shown in the diagram below is the current flow with the engine running. Notice that current now flows from the alternator to the battery and the vehicle accessories. The battery supplies nothing as long as the alternator can supply enough current to keep its voltage higher than the battery. Whether you have 1 battery or 10, when the engine is running the battery is a load.

​

[/TD]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="width: 95%"]

[TD="class: subtitle"]Battery and Alternator at the Same Potential (Engine Running)
[/TD]

[TD="class: textcell"]
Shown in the diagram below is when the alternator and the battery are at the same potential or the same voltage when the engine is running. This is when the accessories and the addition of a high powered audio system draws more current than the alternator can supply. At this point, the current flows from both the alternator and the battery to supply the vehicles accessories and the audio system.

​

[/TD]
[/TABLE]

==================================================================================

In essence, a standard battery will not be able to sustain the extra load on it's own without demanding more power from the alternator, which causes the regulator/rectifier to increase the amount of demand from the alternator to the electrical system to balance the load. The addition of a secondary battery or upgrade to one with a higher RCM (Reserve Capacity Minutes) and better A-h rating to prevent draining during intermittent or continued load drainage will protect the system and allow for additional load with little consequence.

Additionally, with the known faults that the R/R has on the Gen 2's & 3's systems, any issue that would cause abnormal production of power from the alternator through the R/R would effect lifetime expectency or complete failure of the R/R and could cause fault in the battery itself from overheating.

Explained better that time?

 

I've fitted a LiFe battery to mine. The original one was a 4A/hr Race one at £129, which worked but did not like sitting for long periods of inactivity, would be below cranking power in 10 days.

So I found an alternative, How about a nice 10A/hr one for £75 ? You have to do a bit of DIY assembly, but anyone can fit a screw right !?

http://eclipsebikes....0ah-p-1011.html

You need 4 of those, 4 x plastic holders & 5 x connector plates. Nominal Voltage is 3.2v (or 12.8v assembled) charge voltage is 3.65v (or 14.7v assembled). These work great, I've had mine fitted for 4 months now & even with a month sitting still it started the engine no problem.
The standard battery weighs 4.35kg, this assembled weighs 1.4Kg, so saves nearly 3Kg !

The only fiddling required is to get it to fit, is to fit it in the battery tray. I choose the simple route which is to assemble the pack & use two of the connector plates to mount as wings, to allow connection to the existing battery terminal wires. This requires the removal of the battery cover flap as the new battery sits higher at the front. The battery tray is multi-part, so wants to fall apart if you use foam to pad out the battery fit, so you need to address that. I just cut the flap off along the folding seam & drilled a couple of holes in the corners of the tray to allow cable ties to hold the corners together.

The more complex fit would be to lay the new battery on its side then it will fit in the tray, but the connectors won't reach, so you would need to extend the earth lead. I might do that next, now that I know it works OK.

When you assemble the pack which takes 3 of the connector plates, remember + to - for series connections. Look at the current battery & orient the + terminal at the top rear left. The plastic holders are assembled in pairs & then the cells slid in to the bottom set, then turn the top set 90 degrees to the bottom set & slide on to the top of the cells. The metal connectors are added front to rear at the bottom & one is added across the front of the top pair of cells, this leaves the top of the rear two cells clear, add a connector plate to each sticking out to the side towards the battery leads, I insulated the middle part of all these plates with a couple of wraps of insulation tape.
I used some lone thing cable ties around the outside of the pack top to bottom to lock the plastic holders in place & covered the exposed ends of the pack with insulation tape.
You might have to flatten the battery lead connectors to line the holes up & use the old batteries bolts to bolt the leads on. Job done.

The answer to cheap LiFe batteries for bikes

Have fun


Theres a PIcture of it here
VFR800 10year Refresh Part Déux - Fifth Generation VFR's - VFR Discussion

 

TL;DR.

So what you're basically saying is that when the motor is running, the alternator supplies power to your accessories through the battery, which is why you can end up destroying your alternator but the battery is still OK?
If that's the case, do you still need a larger battery?
A Yes or No answer will suffice.

Whatever size you settle on, I'm confident you'll love the Ballistic battery. I know of a guy who is using one in his aeroplane, because it doesn't present an explosive hazard like lead/acid batteries do, plus the higher CCA's and lighter weight are a massive benefit.

 

NO.

What he said was if the alternator is working correctly EVERYTHING is powered by it when the engine is running.

If the alternators output is insufficient, such as when idling on some bikes then the battery takes up the slack. Or when the engine is stopped, the battery powers everything.

You can tell simply if the alternator is large enough to power normal loads at idle by turning on the headlights. If when you rev the engine they get significantly brighter then the alternator will only provide a proper power supply when the engine is revving. The VFR's from 4th gen on have a bigger alternator so the lights should not change much on these, if they do there is probably a charging (read alternator) issue. But it could be the R/R !

 

Oh and those battery load figures in the stuff he pasted are for CARS !