Help me find my shorts er short

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by reg71, Mar 20, 2007.

  1. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    Okay, I think this will prove to be iteresting. I'm having trouble finding a short. It's gonna be hard as hell to find it looking at pics but I thought I'd give it a try. I tried reading the wiring diagram in my manual but it may as well be in Chinese for all the good it does me. Now to add to this mess, the previous owner has installed an alarm so I'm working on getting all the crap that came with it out, but I don't want to cut anything I need.

    In the pic, unknown brown and green, these are located near the headlight. They aren't plugged to anything that I can find. Anyone know what they are for?

    Next pic, unknown plug, this plug isn't plugged in to anything. It will plug in to the nine pin that's already being used, but then the bike doesn't run and the left signal stays on solid. I'm thinking it may have been something that came with the alarm system but cannot prove it. Anyone?

    Next pic, gauges, I just sent this one up to show that the oil and neutral lights both work when the key is in the on position and the bike will start and the signals will work. The horn, headlight indicator, and the headlight doesn't work (at the moment) I know it's not the bulb as when someone test drove it yesterday, he was able to wiggle a wire that made the headlight come on. Anyway, when he tried hardwiring past the switch it blue the main 30 amp fuse which I replaced today.... Anyway, moving on...

    In the pic two reds, these are where the toggle switch was that I cut out. Now when it was hooked up, the lights didn't work in either position but the bike ran, which it still does. I think he just clipped on to other lines for some juice but I didn't cut them out until I can figure it out.

    Next pic, ground plug, there are a bunch of black plugs plugged in to to this thing that's hard to see just under the front of the tank. Are those just ground plugs? When one of them was unplugged the bike would crank but not start. There is one without anything plugged to it but I can't find a plug to stick on there...

    Next, odd light. I think this is something that was added on with the alarm system. Is this supposed to be there? It's never worked since I've had the bike.

    Next, fuse.jpg. What is this fuse for? It's not blown but I'm not really sure what it goes to.... So anyway, those of you who like puzzles have a go and let's see what we can figure out...

    Oh, and an update on my tapping and smoking, Only the right pipe smokes and it starts when the bike gets pretty warm. I've had two votes for rod knocking so far. I'm kind of enjoying tinkering with the bike so I'm not 100% sure that I'm gonna sell it. I just wish I had a garage to tear it down in. :(
     

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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2007


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  2. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    UPDATE: okay, I have tracked down a few things. One, the two plugs are extra and not used acc to the manual. Two, my headlight fuse was blown. Now here's what's weird, I tested the plug for the headlight and it's getting power. You're thinking bulb right? I replaced the bulb, still won't work. Rechecked the plug, power is there. Go figure... I'm still thinking a short somewhere but damned if I can find it... Not sure what I'll do next. Maybe I'll ride it down to Tori's place to work on.

    Update #2: I ran a little mystery oil thorough it and the knocking got loud as hell. I drained it and added oil and mystery oil again then ran it and drained again... I also added some sea foam to the tank of gas...
     


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  3. Ferris

    Ferris New Member

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    Reg, if there is power at the headlamp plug, and the bulb is a known good one, I'd be led to believe it isn't grounded.

    Not to put too fine of a point on it, but....a rod knock, and previous owner wire harness hacking? Is this worth spending any more time on? Sounds like the vultures are circling this one.
     


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  4. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    You're probably right but it gives me something to do. It's kind of interesting to see if I can figure it out. I really don't have much money in the bike. I'm gonna attach a pic of what I think is a relay (I'm good at elec wiring eh?) If this was bad, could it cause the symptoms I'm reporting? How is this thing supposed to be plugged in?

    While we're on the subject of vultures circling... I was wondering about disconnecting #4 and running on 3 cylinders. Would it hurt? I had a truck once that had 2 bad plugs so I was running on 6 cylinders. The truck was such a dog anyway, that I drove it 250 miles like that before I changed the plugs. I was thinking of just getting the bike rideable by getting the lights going and disabling the bad cylinder and letting my son ride it to learn on... I still have the parts bike to go look at also so that's another option...
     

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  5. dskelton

    dskelton New Member

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    Reg,
    When you checked the power at the plug did you check for 12 volts between one of the plugs in the headlight socket and the frame (chassis ground), or between 2 plugs in the headlight socket? If you used the frame as a ground it could be like Ferris suggested and the ground line in your headlamp socket is not connected to anything. Do you get any response from the head light in high beam? Ungrounded circuits can do strange things when looking for a ground.

    If you did check for voltage between two plugs in the socket, then just ignore the above.
     


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  6. Tori

    Tori New Member

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    Reg, your killin' me man..... first that big ole' white helmet, and now you trying to work on electrical....:pound:

    Bring that turd down here.... and we can play with it. I suggest riding it......that way that rod can finish itself off, and then we'll be done with it. Im available pretty much any nite this week, and partially saturday. I'll be working on my bike, getting it ready for Willow Springs on sunday.
     


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  7. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    I checked it from all three prongs on the plug, then I checked on both high and low and was able to get near 12V on both sets.

    Tori, I'm working on getting ready to leave for misery so I prob won't get the old girl down there before that. Too bad I didn't pack up my plastic and send to empire... It'd prob be done when I got back or close to it...

    Oh, another update: I bought a replacement relay thing from Kragen for $5. I don't remember how to hook it up though. hehe... I haven't had a chance to see if it's in the reapir manual. anyone know?
     


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  8. Ferris

    Ferris New Member

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    The relay in the pics is a Bosch single pole, double throw unit...it's about the most common relay used for switching DC power in almost anything. I didn't see it in the pic, but they usually have a diagram printed right on them, if you want to know which pin does what. Google "Bosch SPDT Relay" and you'll get dozens of tutorials.

    I'm guessing it doesn't actually belong on your bike - maybe it was part of the security system the PO installed?

    There is no reason you couldn't run the engine on 3 cyls - no combustion, no heat. Just make sure the ignition lead to the bad cylinder is grounded, so the spark energy has some place to go.

    Thing is, cool as they are, a decent VF500 can be had for $1500 bucks. Or less. Some pretty clean 700s have sold on Ebay recently for that much. You'll spend at least that much in parts and machine shop labor overhauling this motor, provided you do it yourself. Add in electrical problems, bodywork issues, and the inevitable little things...
     


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  9. dskelton

    dskelton New Member

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    I looked in both the Clymer and Honda manuals I have and there are only three relays the come on the bike: the stater relay, the fuel pump relay and the turn signal relay. Both manuals showed pictures of the starter relay and the fuel pump relay, and what you showed in the photo isn't either of those. So, if your turn signals work with it out, you probably don't need it, unless someone hacked it in to be the fuel pump relay.
     


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  10. DANIMAL

    DANIMAL New Member

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    reg,
    the unused Green and brown wire on the 98 model are an extra power source that is turned on & off with the ignition key. you could use it to run accessories that you do not want powered with the key off. iused the set on my 86 to run my radios
     


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  11. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    kinda wishing I had waited for the response before I went to two auto parts stores looking for it now... I wondered if it was just something for that damned security system... Ugh... I wish I could just get the damn lights straight and then shut off the bad cylinder and let my son ride it out... I wouldn't be out any more money and he'd have a bike...
     


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  12. Tori

    Tori New Member

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    Reg, if it makes you feel better,...... i have half a dozen of those relays in my shop. 'told you to bring it down. hehe
     


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  13. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    well, you know, I need to learn this crap anyway. I need one of those 'for dummies' books about DC wiring. I'm gonna try to bring it down. I am trying to wrap everything up for our vacation right now. No new helmet yet darn it! I wanted to get a ride in today... Anyway, back to the VF. I was thinking of just getting the wiring good enough, cleaning it up and doing necessary fluid changes, maybe trying to adjust the valves maybe not and just let Jake ride it this summer until it becomes a parts bike. I'll still check the one at bits and pieces and see if it's worth messing with. It really sounds like a great little bike but I'm not gonna waste ALL my riding time messing with it.
     


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  14. green1

    green1 New Member

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    Shorts blow fuses,open circuits stop stuff from working,from what you say your looking for an open ground circuit.Since you know you have power you could always run a new wire to the ground point of the suspect circuit eliminating the bad wire.
    Edit
    Its sometimes easier to think of electrcal circuits as a river,it has to flow,any brake or blockage between neg and pos and it doesn't work
     


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