4th gen clutch issues

Just when I thought I was done wrenching, the VFR needs a front tire (I have one here already) and apparently clutch plates replacement. 1st gear is fine when ridden hard to redline, but 2nd gear has it surging and slipping and sometimes grabbing pretty much every time @ 10k before I can get to redline. 3rd-6th is OK, and I can even get 2nd to get to redline occasionally if I get there gradually and not when I'm accelerating hard. The 2nd gear thing feels like someone is taking the spark plug wire off and then putting it back on....power up till 10k, then surging and bucking.

I can upshift pretty much from 1st to 6th without touching the clutch lever too by just briefly rolling off the gas.

I've also had 2-3k miles of sorta "slingshotting"....I'm behind a car that I need to get around, so I grab a handful of throttle, never touch the clutch, and it sorta spins up the engine noise for a second without much more forward momentum, then catches and slingshots me ahead. It feels like I was losing traction on ice or something where I was spinning the back tire in a straight line, and then it suddenly gained traction.

If it was a nitro Busa I could say it was lighting up the rear tire with hp. But it's not. It's a 18 year old, 100 hp bike with 55k on it.

I am pretty sure, based on knowing the previous owner, that it's the original clutch plates. 55K on these currently. Granted, I ride this thing hard. Really hard. Pretty much every launch is a hard launch, redline, shift, redline, hard on the gas, etc. I know I should take it easy on the old girl, but it's so much damn fun and sounds so damn good it's hard to resist.

So..sound to you like a new batch of clutch plates (steel and fiber all the way around, or re-use the steel ones?) and new springs as well? Do you recommend OEM, Barnett, EBC, others?

Thanks, as always.

 

Sounds like a worn out clutch to me.

 

Shifting without the clutch can be hard on transmissions and something you'd not want to try in the rain.

Based on how you say you ride, your tranny doesn't have long to live, and banging the red line in every gear maybe you don't either. You DO need a new clutch.

 

Rain? I think I remember rain....HA. I'm in SoCal. I sit out those 4 days every year and drive the Jeep. Which, I'm proud to say I have not driven since....february?

Oh well...if the tranny goes I'll buy another one, no big deal. This bike is too much fun to ride grandmotherly.

 

^^^ Since the transmission is integrated into the motor, that's not a wise stance to take.

Just replace your clutch plates and the side cover gasket. It might take you 3 hours if you're doing it one handed.

 

Hmmm....well, let me post one more before I tear into this:

I plan on tearing it down this week to see if I need JUST the fiber plates, or the fiber and the steel plates. Apparently from what I've been told sometimes you can get away with re-using the steel plates if they are not blued from heat and are not warped (tip: lay them on glass or a mirror to check). So, before I order everything, I suppose I need to check into it to see exactly what I need. I'm told to get new springs, but...is that all: What's with this judder spring thing...should I swap them too?

And here's my main question, now that youse all have me worried on how I drive this thing: I gather that the small squares of pad material on each friction plate is what keeps the clutch engaging/disengaging...am I to assume that when a clutch slips, those small pads have worn away, leaving that particular clutch plate smooth (or smoothER that it was when new)? I'm asking b/c I'm wondering if it is normal when a clutch starts to slip that it slips in only one gear like mine is doing in 2nd? I guess I have worry creeping in my mind that the dogs on 2nd gear are gone and I may have to undercut the tranny gears on yet another motorcycle on yet another 2nd gear. I've done this on another bike...kinda a PITA. It seems odd to me (and lends me to think the tranny might need to be undercut) that only 2nd gear slips. And now it seems to be slipping at a different RPM than before...then: 10k. now: 8k. Again, 1st and 3rd - 6th still pull solidly like a freight train, just 2nd has me a bit worried now....

your thoughts?

 

If it pops out of second gear you could be in for splitting the cases and re-building (read: ordering new shift forks, gears, etc...)

The way my bikes used to slip when the clutch was worn was that in the higher gears (4-6) if I got lazy and didnt wana downshift, the revs would raise, basically slipping. Kinda like a bad automatic transmission slipping on a large grade.

Why you flog that bike so hard? Granted I wait till at least 90mph to shift into sixth gear on the motorway (not the best thing for my license but fuck em)...running on the expressway it does see 9000 rpm but around town I short shift my shit. Just saying yah know...I got oem honda replacement clutch pack along with new springs...its very sweet still after all them years...you gota listen to dah Squirrel-Man,,,Aka Eichhornchen...

 

Well, it's not jumping out of 2nd...it's just slipping really bad in 2nd. I've had the 2nd gear jump out/false neutral thing before in a ZX, and had to up & down race cut the whole tranny.

 

Just had a slippage problem myself this last week. I removed my clutch master cyl. cap and found what looked like peanut butter and not dot4. cleaned it and bled it and no more slip. It was so bad that I could almost not keep up speed on the highway, I thought i'd be doing a clutch and not getting away with just a cleaning and flush. lucky

 

I rode it home today from work and paid close attention to the shifting. 1st is still A-OK all the way to red line. 2nd is sometimes OK if I roll into it gently, and will stay OK longer if I ease it higher, but just by giving it gas and no clutch it went from about 8K all the way thru red line and to the rev limiter each time. 3rd was still fine and 4th - 6th were fine on the freeway @ speed, up to about 90 with no slip or issues.

 

I was @ a honda dealer getting my tire swapped yesterday, and I asked a tech about my bike and the slipping, and he said "start to worry about the transmission." He said if a clutch starts to slip, it will slip in all gears and all RPMs. He also said the oil will have a burnt small to it. Mine does not.

So now, I don't know what to think. I guess I should take the clutch pack out this weekend and see if anything looks out of the ordinary.

 

Took the clutch pack out today, and looked at all the discs. The steel ones were not blue or black anywhere on any side, and the fiber ones still had some of the pad material on each and every one of them.

So....when the fiber ones are done, do they get completely smooth?

I have the OEM service manual, but didn't see any reference to tell if any of the plates are within spec or not. Any of you guys know if this info exists?

Everything looks good and clean in there. No obvious marks or scrapes or anything like that.

 

Wife-ee is alergic to peanuts! If she was riding your bike she would of had an ana-fah-lacktic episode :tongue:

I have seen DOT 3,4 turn to a nice shade of yellow naval jelly before, also have seen good old petrol turn into black tar inside some nice folks bmw tanks (thank-good-ness that they were aluminum.)

You could always just replace the springs with heavier ones or new OEM too...There is a measurement you can do with the clutch plates and the tolerances are in the gud-book (aka-manual) cheers.

 

I have seen clutch plates that appeared fine but would slip because they had glazed over from getting to hot. But I'm with the mechanic. Anytime I ever had a slipping clutch it would slip in all gears and only mattered what rpm I was in. You could try some stiffer springs but I don't think it will help. Your clutch doesn't care what gear you are in. It is either going to slip or not regardless of what gear you are in. Unless you enjoy diving into transmissions I would start loking for a donor engine. Also have you checked your oil for metal particles?

 

Clutch spring free length: 44.4 mm Service Limit: 41.2 mm

Clutch disk thickness: 3 +/- 0.08 mm SL: 2.5 mm

Check the aluminum hub and basket for corn row wear pattern--that can keep the stack from compressing fully and allow slippage.
http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanic...uces-wear-extends-life-clutch-basket-hub.html

 

I found the service limit spec numbers about the same time I saw this post. It's buried in the front of the manual. I measured mine, and even though the springs are not at the service limit, they are lower than when new. Same with the fiber plates. I put the steel plates on my glass kitchen table, and none are warped or show any bluing. I do have a slight corn row pattern on the edges of the clutch basket fingers, but none nearly as bad as in the fotos above. Just a small series of slight indentions. No metal in the oil...I have a magnetic bolt and it was clean.

 

replace the clutch disks and flog that thang!

 

I don't believe you have a clutch problem. The way you ride it you should. But a clutch won't slip in just one gear. Its not possible. Unless it is sliping in the other gears as well but you are just not able to tell. You said in your first post it had been slingshotting is that just in second gear? If that has been in all gears then yes that would be your clutch. I hope you are doing this wild riding outside the city. If not it won't be long and you will have much bigger problems. Like learning how to walk again.

 

Hmmmm.....I'm pretty sure the slingshotting was occurring in a higher gear. Winding it up and suddenly getting the slingshotting to get around someone in 2nd doesn't seem like something I'd need to do. I recall it happening when I was on the freeway already, not around town, so that puts me in a higher gear in my mind already, like maybe it was happening in 4th or 5th. Seems plausible to me.

 

totally clutch problems. Gearbox do not spin engage disengage and engage again.
It just drop out of gear, and leave you in false neutral