Are those "newer 600's" really that quick?

Stosh - yes, you did answer my question and your response was exactly what I was looking for. I did not ask the question to start any type of bashing and I did not detect any of that in your response. The reason for the question is that a number of years ago, I owned a brand new CBR600 and I later sold that bike to buy a brand new '99 VFR800. Even though I never had the chance to ride them back to back, my gut told me that even that 15+ year old 600 had at least the same or even more performance than the VFR. I sold the CBR to buy the 5th Gen because I wanted a bike for my real world use, which was mainly commuting in traffic and only occasionally hitting the back roads to let the bike stretch it's legs. I bought the VFR (and now own a 6th Gen) because the engine has the characteristics that I'm looking for. If Honda wanted this motor to put out more than it does, then I'm SURE they could. It has always been my belief that the 800 is designed for reliability / longevity first and performance second. Just the fact that it has an oil cooler on it, to me, indicates that was the type of thinking that Honda put into it.

Absolutely not! That's what this forum is all about! The help you gave me while converting my 800 to a tourer was awesome and influenced by purchasing decisions. Because of that, I am loving the VFR even more now with the enhancements that I made to it. Thank you and keep your honest input coming!

 

Well if you look at those figures, for any machine in a reasoonable state of tune the Torque figure is pointless as it primarily the result of CC of which the 600 is obviously only 3/4's of an 800 (well 781cc really) so you can see that the 10 year youger GSXR750 produces exactly the same torgue as the VFR ! But that torque is a factor in rideability & higher gear accerleration, hence a drop to 5th on the VFR could produce useful acceleration, where as the 600's would need to drop 2 or 3 gears to achieve the same effect. Engine configuration also has a bearing, hence the 848 is quite a bit more than the VFR, as its a V-twin it has bigger parts flying around in the engine.

Power wise the 600's are in a higher state of tune, hence the higher peak power numbers, but to get there they rev to what were race bike rpm's 10+ years ago when the VFR was designed !

Acceleration, is a combination of Torque & Weight (where less is more), the CBR600 produces 4/5ths of the torque of the VFR, but it is approximately 40Kg lighter than the VFR, which interestingly makes it about 4/5ths of the weight of a VFR which offsets its reduced torque & in effect makes them equal ! But then the CBR revs higher, so has to make less gear changes in the 1/4mile, so it beats the VFR by a wisker.

I've just designed & fitted my own cams for the VFR & it feels like it pulls much harder when revved & revs much quicker, but some of that may be down to some of the other mods I've made. Can't wait to get it on a dyno & see the results with a custom map. So in theory mine is now in a similar state of tune as the 600's, I have also lopped 30Kg off the weight so it is now approximately the same weight (2012 CBR600RR curb weight=194Kg) my VFR 5th Gen wet weight = approx 200KG (still need a final weigh in). The offical Honda curb weight for the CBR includes all fluids & 10litres of fuel (approx 7Kg).

As a point of interest, I went from a VF500F to CBR600F4 & was surprised at the lack of Torque the 600 made, by that I mean roll-on accelleration was terrible, where on the 500 it would either pull or drop one gear, where as the 600 I always had to drop 2 or 3 to get the same acceleration, even though the figures showed that the 600 had 96rwhp compared to 59rwhp on the 500, the 600 also had more torque, but felt less ! Weird, but there ya have it.

 

Well an R1 is not a GSXR1000, because I am on my third one. Any gix1000 will blow the doors off a VFR torque wise, and that includes at 60 mph in top gear. Get yourself a 2001-2002 gix1000 and try riding it like your friends R1. That bike will wheelie on the throttle from 4000 rpm in second gear. I was hard on the gas in third gear one time doing around 130 k when I hit a bump in the road and the front came up in a major way. Not a bike for the inexperienced. The new ones are much more civilized and far easier to ride. But don't be fooled, a litre bike does speed so easily it sometimes feels as if it is not going that fast.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you have said. Especially about litre bikes not being much use on the roads. They are too fast for the road. Anyone who says that he wrings the neck of his litre bike on the road all the time is full of sxxxx. I don't ride my 1000 now except at the track, or on yearly trips to the Gap. My VFR750 is now my daily bike ride, and as far as I am concerned it handles well, is more than fast enough, and is all you need.

 

A 600 is all the full out sport bike, that you need for the road. Only thing I don't care for is the lack of torque compared to larger engines. On the other hand it seems that manufacturers are trying to remedy that, which is a good thing. 600's in the 90's had more than sufficient torque to have fun!

 

If a person is in reasonable shape modern sport bikes are that uncomfortable, provided you modify them slightly. I have lowering foot plates and helibars on my 1000 and 300 to 400 mile days are not a problem for me.

 

Thanks Stewart,will do. :thumb:

I'm genuinely sorry for dragging your name into that unpleasantness a few posts back.

When I was young and brash raising my voice never used to bother me at all. I seldom do it anymore these days because I feel as though I die just that little bit more inside when I do.

 

LOL turns out they are that fast. Now all you have to deal with is your bike sounding like the engine will blow up every time it revs up. Sounds like a bee looking for honey!

 

hahahahaha, this still still going. Stosh brings the hard facts and gets dogpiled, epic rationalization ensues.......





.

 

DOGPILE ON THE JOKER...DOGPILE ON THE JOKER!!!!!

just the fax ma'am just the fax...

I had an old in line four suzuki gs 700... right before I got the vfr700... and i will say comparing the two 700's the VFR kicked the suzukis ass all over the place...but the avenger quad would blow away either in a heart beat on the low end but the VFr woulod take it on the distance.

off topic I guess... so back on topic.. yeah they are that fast....ound:

and Stosh you better keep writing the truth...or I will fing your VFR and turn it into an RWB...I have access to a case of spray cans........

 

my buddy has an '08 CBR, and it's quick...I saw 68 in 1st gear on the speedo - wound slap out! that was at 15.5 on the tach!

BUT - my heels were practically touchin' my ass, my wrists felt like they were broken and my lower back was screaming. After about 15 minutes I wanted off of that torture device! And it's a dog under 8k RPM, it's like a slingshot at the top though.

That was what made me never want a full on supersport..then I sat on a gixxer 750 and it was night and day, so much more comfy.

 

Well I bet my 700 is now faster than your average 600!!!

Well maby after I get my clutch situated on the 1000 engine that now in it!otstir:

 

A first gen 700 with a VF1000 in it i'm assuming? Lets hear what it can do 0-60 in because I still bet it is not as quick as my 600. Specs sheet says 116 hp @ the rear wheel for a VF1000, and you can get 110 from a good modern 600, which is also carrying around less weight, and is aerodynamic where the interceptor is square. Nothing bad against interceptors, but i'd Be really surprised if aany 1st gen ever was or is faster than a F4 or better CBR600 or equivalent bike. Nice work stirring the pot by the way!:biggrin:

 

Are you dudes aware of my now universally famous 91 mach 1? I get mach in first.

What is wierd about the OPs line of questioning is that there seems to be some confusion about potential velocity in a given gear and riding ability. Gearing aside.

"Size" is irrelevant too. (this one being wide open for comment, pie charts or naughty pix)

Here's a puzzler for the real wrenches. Ya got a bike with all the right stuff. Two riders of pretty much equal ability only one is a short dude at 120lbs and the other is 6'6" and 300 lbs. How much more HP will it take to get to 60mph for the big dude to equal what the little dude gets.

 

540 HP more?

I am not a wrench and I tink I did the formula right LOL!

BZ

 

They may have more power, but is it useable? Really, where can you unleash that thing, other than the track?

 

Oh, size does matter... it was common knowledge in my hot rod days that cubic inches was the cheapest way to gain HP. Nitrous is the second.

I have yet to take my vf700f (vf1000f) on the open road yet because I'm now waiting for a clutch bearing. However, just on my street I was able to bring the front wheel of the big old square brick up without any clutch play or high RPM's - I just goose the throttle, and only about half way!! AND.... I'm about 6-2 and 230 pounds. When I try for a top speed (on a track of course) I will loose weight by stripping down and laying on my seat like the guy did on the salt flats many years ago.

 

If I compare my VF1000R and VFR800, the R has more HP and it feels like it has more HP, but if you drag the two bikes, the 800 will walk away from it every time. The 800 puts its power to the ground very quickly and you can do it without the clutch - you can just slam it through the gears. With the older bikes, you have to be very methodical with the shifting - pull in the clutch, shift, let out the clutch, give it gas - this is what allows the "smaller" bikes to pull away. The new 600s are like the VFR800 where they shift like butter.

 

My VFR750FG (86) did a 11.35 at 124mph at Santapod raceway and I have the ticket to prove it

 

Maybe so but we got better ads or as you guys say, "adverts".

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