Bike out of commish today!!

Hello friends!

Well I was talking to toe cutter and scubalong on chat today so they kind of know whats going on already..And I want them to know I did not discount the advice they gave me, I just want to post my findings and get a little more information.

So the 98 vfr800 didnt start after I stopped at a gas station today. I pushed it in reverse up a loading ramp in back of a grocery store and was able to roll n start it to get it home. At first, when I hit the starter, there wasnt even a click...But now it shows signs of a weak battery when I hit the starter. By that I mean It tried to turn over for a split second - as any dead battery would. Thats the first time I ever heard the bike do that when it didnt want to start. There had been times where it wouldnt start, but after clicking the kill switch on and off it would start right up and the dashboard would reset.

ToeCutter told me earlier that I should instantly change the RR, as well as the stator and stator rotor. Well I just tore the plastics off and snapped a picture of the RR plugs and it doesnt look like all those pictures and what not that I see on the forums - where they are all melted. They actually looked fine. a little black on it but no holes in the wires...no wires crossing.

My question is would it just be the stator then? I felt the stator cover and it was pretty hot, more so on the left side. I dont know if thats just normal but it was just an observation. I know what a lot of you think - which is to do it all and rest easy...But ive been spending money on the Hawk and just got a replacement transfer case for the jeep. Plus my department at work is slow for the summer so my hours drop significantly and I collect partial unemployment because of it. Not saying im broke, but a few more hundred on these parts to get my bike running is not sounding good right now lol.

Anyway let me know what you all think and check this picture out! Aloha!

 

The fact that it ran with a push start, makes me believe the charging system is working, so I would charge the battery & load test it, & I would check the charging system to see what it is doing or not doing, before changing parts.

Good luck & hoping it is just a bad battery.

 

Similar thing happened today on my first ride with my 500.... went to get some air in the tires and some gas, and she was dead.

Fortunately in my case, the gas station had a booster kit, and it fired right back up. Must have killed it with all the attempted starts past couple days, before I got the carbs cleaned up..... I hope.


Good luck with whatever it is. Just curious, how was it running before it died?

 

Runs like a champ!! Even after I push started it, the thing ran like a champ. Toe and long were telling me if I push start it be sure to hold the idle up cause the bike will want to die - but I didnt even have to do this. The thing idled as usual (+/- 1200rpm) and I didnt have to keep revving to keep it started. I just rode on home and when I got there I turned it off and just for kicks tried to start it again..little whine and nothing.

 

You got the classic R/R issue. Your battery is being drained.
Read this thread since I went explaining this in detail plus regulator test.
http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...-stalled-red-light-wouldnt-start-back-up.html

 

Hey Rubo, just want to be clear on one thing though..I was under the impression that the regulator fails if it overheats and the connector and wires start to melt. From what I see there is no melting of any kind. Does it matter if it gets burned or not? Would the RR just fail even though theres no melting or anything? If so, and I replaced it - is there any chance I could push start the bike and ride it for a while to charge the battery again? The battery is not old..Thanks for bearing with me - im a total nooob.

 

My 1st original RR failure nothing was burn.
There is a simple diode test you can do to determine if your RR is healthy. click on Link on my 1st post.
Another test you can do is simply charge your battery and attach multimeter say healthy 12.8 start the bike if the voltage drops and continue to drop means your battery is not getting any juice.
Do both tests see if your regulator passes.I am almost certain its your regulator.
If you don't have multimeter buy one.Its a must tool.
buy also battery charger.Every rider should have one.Don't push your bike to get it started.You want safe stationary place to work on your bike.If it fails miles away from home you'll spend more money towing it home then buying a charger.

 

Thanks I appreciate it. I assume that when I pull the regulator off my 98 vfr800 that it will have the same kind of setup as in the video (starting at 10:30)??? I noticed the regulator on my bike just has the wiring kind of built in to it - so the connector should be where im testing with the multimeter?

 

pull the plugs out both
white plug is stator wires yellow
black battery connection wires.

multimeter on diode testing dot and arrow+

negative on red wire A
positive on yellow wires (test each wire at the time like in the video)
you should see voltage drop
repeat with the other red wire (2 of them)
same

now reverse and you should see 1 on multimeter.

Also do the simple battery voltage test while bike is running stationary.If R/R is bad you should see voltage drop as battery is getting drained.

You should do stator test as well
continuity (resistance) check between the yellow stator wires and the engine case (not the battery ground wire) indicates an open or short circuit condition--that should be done first with the stator connector disconnected from the RR.

If you have continuity then one of the stator wires is shorted to the case and the stator will need to be replaced.

If the check indicates an open circuit, meaning no short to the case, then you can check the stator output AC voltage. With the stator connector disconnected from the RR, connect the red lead of your meter to one of the yellow stator wires and the black lead of your meter to either of the other yellow stator wires, using care and/or electrical tape to ensure no accidental shorting of the wires and leads during testing. Then set the meter on AC voltage scale and start the bike and read the voltage at idle and 3k rpm, then kill the engine. Connect the black lead to the other yellow stator wire and repeat this test. Then connect the red lead to the other yellow wire and repeat. Now you have the ac voltage generated by all 3 phases of the stator, which should all be similar values and range from about 40 to 60 volts ac.

 

Ok well I tested the regulator with the multimeter set on (arrow+, whatever that means lol). When I put the negative on one of the red wires and test the positive on the 3 yellow wires it jumps around for a second or two - .9, .7,.8,.5, and levels off at around .46-.47.

When I reverse it, putting the positive on the red wires and the negative on the yellow ones, on the same (Arrow+) setting - it doesnt read 1 at all for any of them. It just stays at .0L

I have my battery on the charger right now and will reconnect the regulator and test the battery at the posts to see if there is a voltage drop. Then ill go from there.

But as far as the regulator test - does this pretty much mean it needs to be replaced?

Thanks.

 

lets go over few things
1st multimeter settings
negative plugs in com
positive on vmA

when testing you should do one wire at a time.
you should not get decimal points but as long as its dropping in numbers then that's good.
Do the battery test which is more conclusive.Get back soon after

 

The negative is in COM and the positive is on the other input. Multimeter was turned on to the "arrow+" setting you speak of. And I did do one wire at a time. Kept the negative on one red wire then tested the positive on 3 yellow wires separately - did that with both red wires. Then used the positive on one red wire while testing the yellow wires separately - and also did that with both reds. Not all of them "drop" - some just start and stabilize at .46-.47 and some quickly flash a few numbers like .5's and.8's (not in any specific order) then stabilize at .46-.47

Then when reversed I dont get a "1" reading for anything. It just stays reading ".0L".

Im pretty sure im doing it right - just like the video and what you said on here. But I will do the battery when its fully charged.

Thanks!

 

When you 'test' the R/R in this fashion (using a VOM), you're measuring the diodes in the rectifier bridge. One polarity should get you some conductivity - and the reading will depend upon the voltage present on your VOM leads. The opposite polarity should get you an open circuit (the '.OL' indication). Seems to me the diodes are okay.

I read this from the beginning and concluded it's the battery, and after all the other posts I'm still pretty sure it's the battery. The bike runs fine when the charging system is providing the energy. Me thinks that's a BIG clue.

 

Well buddy I like the sound of that lol..I got the battery on the charger now so I might as well do the tests when its charged. But thanks for the input! I appreciate it!

 

The Rectifier (R/R) is overheating. I've been through this. The R/R is still able to provide juice to keep the engine going but at a cost of extreme heat. Once you turn the bike off, it's able to keep the engine off so it can cool down.

The reason why toejamb told you to change out everything is because "USUALLY" when one electrical part goes out, it will take out or wear out the other components. I've been fortune enough to just have been able to wire up an R1 rectifier and not change out the stator BUT I am going to change out the stator once I get time and a newer model R1 rectifier that is smaller.

The MAIN PROBLEM with the OEM rectifier is it is placed in the tail section where there is NO air flow. I even put the R1 rectifier (which is suppose to run a lot cooler) in the stock location and it over heated on me on a 3 hour trip. Pulled the clutch in to stop and dead bike. Dang R1 rectifier was just as hot as the OEM one.

A lot of people with mount an 80mm computer fan to their R/R and either hot wire it into an ignition wire or to a switch.

 

OK like I said im not trying to discount the appreciated advice, but Im just trying to make sense of all the mixed reviews lol. The battery was dead..I got it on a charger and after 5 hours or so the charged light came on but it was only reading in the low 12's so I decided to take someone elses advice and just leave it on for a full day then do the tests on it.

RangerScott - im assuming my RR test results brought you to this conclusion, but the other guy is saying the test results are saying that the RR is good. I know I can be safe and change everything - but really if its just the battery, id like to save some much needed money right now. I dont do long rides either, might have something to do with slowly draining the battery or not? I usually ride 20 miles 3-5 days a week which is a 10 mile one way to work. but lately my department is slow and have barely been doing that trip..Mostly just shorter trips. The other day when the bike died was a 35 or mile round trip with a few very short rides in between to stop at random stores. Could I just be going too hard on the battery? I know you guys are telling me what you think it is - but theres so many mixed reviews so I want to get all the facts straight.

On another note - check out my old transfer case. my buddy and I changed it yesterday on his garage floor with just 1 jack!! Not the easiest job! lol this is what you DONT want your transfer case to look like....

 

Mine tested out fine but once the bike was running for awhile you could cook eggs on the R/R. I was 3 states away from home when mine decided to do all of this. Was coming up to a red light, pulled in clutch lever, and dead bike. Once it cools down it'll start just fine and run just fine. I did replace the batter since that's what we thought was the problem at the time.

I know you want to disect this but in the long run and to save you a LOT of frustration, money, and time. It's best to go away and change the parts out. It's also very wise to NOT go back with a new oem R/R and just use an R1 rectifier.

Roadstercycle-Index


Sitting in traffic is even worse than being on the highway all day for the R/R.

 

Yes putting the battery on a tender is a plus. If you can get the bike to start and running. Ride it for 15 or so minutes, then pull over and get your hand to the R/R if you can and see if you can leave your hand on it. If it's so hot it only takes a second to burn you then it's going out. If not then it could be just a dieing battery. Batteries can be awesome at one time then next year it acts like its 20 yrs old. The cells in them can just give up with no warning. The battery location on this bike isn't any better. The battery box is right above the rear of the engine so all the heat goes to it. You could put some heat tape around it to help.

The electrical systems on these bikes are not the best.

 

Also the wire connectors on the vfrs sucks. I've found several that the metal connectors were loose. Thats the main problem with the stator connector. The metal connectors inside the plastic housings dont fit snug and resistance builds up with then over heats the plugs and melts everything within range.

I'm really considering cutting off all the connections and putting in Delphi connections that are used on a lot of new vehicles. I have a 3 prong setup that I'm gonna use when I change out the stator but I read somewhere that the ones I got are rated at 15amps. I think they need to be at least 20 amps so I'm hesitant to use them but they got be better than the oem crap that was used. I really hate honda for cheaping out on such small details but important non the less.

http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/ee/connect/standard-automotive-connection-systems/

 

I got R1 regulator installed and never overheated and works fantastic.
You most likely installed old style regulator similar to stock.
You want 04 or newer.Must be mosfet (new cooler design. numbers must start with FHO11AA FH is new design SH is old design which is stock and runs very hot
Since mosfet regulators run cool original location is fine.I have no issues.