2002 vfr800 killing it at the track

starts off slow, but then this guy was just lapping everybody

VFR800

 

lol true. a win is a win though

 

Track looks pretty smooth, anyone know what track it is. I see an unknown language on the vid so I have no idea if its in another country

DUH nevermind Translated it

 

That is cool vid......saw the speedometer go up pass 170 is that km or miles?

 

yeah that was kph, could you imagine if vfr's accelerated that hard? jebus. I agree with tink, the form on those guys was crap, not to mention line selection and body position. I am not speaking as an experienced rider, just a casual viewer of SBK and MotoGP.

 

Not sure if that is a 2002 the Vtec seems to kick in at 5400 ish, unless he bought a new ecu.

Eh nevermind its kinda hard to tell, but his is a lot smoother in the 7000 rpm than mine is. I try not to play around in corners in that rpm range, looks like he has some other mods as well. Because that master cylinder for the clutch is different. Can anyone else hear where the VTEC engages?

 

Yeah i saw that master cylinder, I am really interested in that, as the feel on my clutch is horrible and I can't launch this bike worth a shit. You think he put a radial master cylinder on it?

 

I would imaging it wouldn't be that difficult to get a master cylinder off a RC51 and mount it on your bars. You would have to have the whole assembly though meaning master cylinder and clutch lever. It would be interesting to see if that would work, the only problem I would see is that one might not have the same amount of pressure or maybe more than the stock vfr one. Other than that I have watched this video a couple times and cannot tell where the VTEC engages. I know this idea has been widely regarded as a stupid idea, but do you think that maybe he disabled the VTEC by enabling the other valves permanently. I have some ideas oh how to do so, however I am not sure they are correct.

 

I was taught (in my beginners basic riders course) that I shouldn't decelerate while turning. They taught us the acronym SLPR--Slow (before reaching the turn), Look (through the turn), Press (the grip of the direction you want to turn), Roll (on the throttle), in that order. Does this method not apply to race track riding? In some of the turns the rider in the vid made he was still decelerating well after he was into a full lean, and in some cases he was still slightly slowing down beyond the apex of the turn. I'm very much a novice at riding in general and have logged exactly zero hours on a track but when I've done something like that in making normal turns on the street I feel less confident. I feel gravity (thats pulling the bike weight down) overcoming centrifugal force (pulling the bike up) and low-siding seems more imminent.

Maybe I should do a track day. I really like learning about this stuff.

 

What they teach you in rider coach is one thing your brain reaction is another thing..........Take a lot of practice (Balls) and skill to achieve perfection

 

Fine at low speeds, but faster corning requires that you initiate the turn by pressing the bars opposite the direction of the turn, "countersteering." After the bike is leaned over and turning, regular steering applies.

Play with it, and experiment until it feels natural getting into a turn by countersteering and you know you're using it.

 

My general technique is to brake into the turn and smoothly modulate off the brake as I countersteer to pitch the bike in, with blipped down shifts.

Look through the turn and just sort of look off to the side, putting your head roughly about where your mirror is, then roll on the throttle as you hit the apex of the turn.

The biggest mistake I see people make (as tink points out), is thinking that sliding your butt off the seat is what creates the proper body position. It is where your HEAD is (whole upper body really) that creates proper weighting and ability to use LESS lean angle through the turn. You are NOT trying to lean the bike. Yes the MotoGP guys are cranked WAY over, but they are leaned because they are going fast. Not the other way around.

Read some of the Keith Code stuff and you realize that we are actually trying to lean the bike the LEAST possible. That way more tire contacts the road and you have some breathing room to correct mid-turn by adding lean angle. If you pitch the bike way over, you have nowhere to go and less tire in is contact with the road.

The physics are that when you lean the bike over, you are shifting the center of mass farther away from center and balancing downward force against the centripetal (not centrifugal) pull as shown in Ryebread's illustration. By shifting your UPPER body off the bike center, you achieve the same purpose as leaning the bike. Shifting your butt over and keeping your head centered counteract each other and is totally useless.

Jose

 

Good rider & the other riders were considerate in their lines, rare, see a lot of track hogs at times. The 6th gen is very capable under the right hands, eh.

 

I've only done a handfull of track days and a two day school with Jason Pridemore so I'm not an authority but I do have thirty years of street riding to my credit with only one unplanned get-off. I've read a number of books by various experts such as Nick Ienatsch
Amazon.com: Sport Riding Techniques: How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track (9781893618077): Nick Ienatsch, Kenny Roberts: Books
and they all had great ways of explaining what was happening and ideas on how you should physically and mentally approach the whole riding experience.

The one thing I know for certain is that the techniques that make you smooth quick and effective on the track cannot or should not be applied on the street. That and the fact that different bikes demand different styles on the track. Take the third gen VFR for example. It suffers from a severe lack of ground clearance in stock form so you need to ride it like the track is wet. By that I mean that you can't plunk you arse in the seat and just lean your upper body. You need to weight the inside peg and hang off the beast with your chin almost touching your clutch hand (LH turn) and your knee hard on the pavement. There were times where I had huge issues in RH turns reaching the shifter because I was so far off the bike. That was the third gen. The fifth gen was a lot better but still required more body language that the other "real" sport bikes out there and it benefited from a 10mm shim in the rear suspension to get more clearance. So perfect "form" really depends on the bike and how you fit on it, not to mention the available power and traction.

But all of this is worthless on the street so that is why they don't teach it in basic rider education. Let's face it, you don't need to trail brake to the apex when riding at 70 to 80%. After my track experiences I actually slowed down on the street quite a bit. Perhaps I don't feel that I need to prove anything, maybe i'm just getting old, maybe I play on the computer too much, who knows but that is my 2 cents.

Remember,

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting."
Steve McQueen

 

I like some of your points, Jethro. Look at the old school GP racing (just read a great article about the old days of HD being in road racing) and they had a real stick to the bike center type of riding style. The bikes were built such that it was difficult to hang off. More recent bikes are built with modern riding techniques in mind.

I LOVE THAT MCQUEEN QUOTE!!!!!!

Jose

 

Jethro,

I agree that more people need an avenue for releasing adrenaline. Track riding can be more expensive; I prefer the dirt. It is somewhat less expensive the speeds are lower and there is probably more access (at least in my area.)

 

Yep we all need a release eh!
I suppose you need to take advantage of the venues near you. I used to live in Northern Ontario where you could ride for days on the logging roads and it was a lot inexpensive fun. The off road venues I found in Wisconsin were the opposite! Way over crowded and full of dip shits who just wanted to be an ass and scare my kids. On the track you really need to be prepared to throw your bike away. If you can't afford to load a pile of mangled metal on the trailer, don't go. A track school is more controlled and safer but more expensive. One lovely afternoon I was riding at Road America in the A group with my Ducati and the conditions were wet with dry patches so you were always pushing and sliding and scaring the shit out of yourself. The track is so big it sees huge changes form one side to the other. I was coming through the kink and down through Canada corner and the conditions were drying up so I was picking up the pace quite a bit. I hit the front straight and topped it out probably just shy of the 160 mark and as I started braking for turn one all was well but then as I leaned it in trail braking to the apex, the front started to go! Oh shit, no time to think, it was either going to be a low side or a fast ride into the gravel. I chose the latter and someone was watching over me as I kept it upright. It must have been my dirt biking that saved me. The corner Marshal was standing there with his hands on his head, mouth agape. I paddled out of the gravel and circulated around to put her on the trailer for the day. I dodged the bullet and knew it was enough. The conditions were just too unpredictable! Talk about adrenaline!

 

What I am about to write is out of frustration NOT arrogance.

With that said, I can’t believe the misnomers about track days that circle the interwebz. A track day is a skill enhancement day on the current bike you ride. Any bike in the sport bike to sport tourer category will work. A track day is NOT a throw your precious street bike down the track and destroy it. In fact, beginner track day riders on their street bikes rarely if ever crash at the track days I go to. And since I rarely street ride and pretty much only do track days I have some experience in this area. When people say you have to be prepared to bring your bike home in pieces if you do a track day is retarded at best. The reality is EVERYTIME you go for a ride whether street or track you have to be prepared to bring it home in pieces. In fact, I read more threads on VFRW of how viffer owners have dropped, hit deer, or crashed their VFR’s more than all the riders on the track day board I frequent. Also, if and I mean IF you did happen to crash at the track? Well your bike won’t be bouncing off hard objects. I’ve seen riders go down in front of me and guess what? Next session they are back out on the track with some rashed plastics and nothing more.

Simply put, the racetrack allows for speeds and cornering that are not achievable on the street. Therefore, beginners find out that even at speeds greater than the street, their machines have way more capabilities than thought and even dragging knee they are in no way shape of form going to crash (look at my photo album).

Also the idea that track skills do not relate to street riding is total and utter bullshit. California Super Bike School, Yamaha Champions School, etc realize many of their students are street riders and they go over what skills go to both the street and track. They are not speed related exercises either.

So what skills translate from track to street? The list is too long for me to write this morning and other better riders have already written about it see Keith Code or Nick Ianetcsh. Except I will say braking. I used to be a little afraid of the brakes. Now, I have no fear grabbing a big handful of brake almost to the point of lock up. You know why? Because I have done it enough times I know what it feels like and being able to manipulate the brakes at high speeds translates to total confidence and control of the brakes at street speeds.

Here is a great article in RRW about track days.

TDD 2012

Are they expensive? Can be. In my area and depending upon the day, track and organization the cost ranges from $230.00 to $125.00. But lets put this in perspective. Whats cheaper? Cost of trackday or getting pulled over on topping out your VFR on the street? Oh, and any monkey can twist the throttle and top out a bike. You aren’t fast because you did 140 mph…you are fast when you can do 140 mph, scrub some speed and go through turn one at 90 mph. Speed don’t mean shit folks unless its carried in the turns.

I have met three other VFR owners at the track. I always make sure I introduce myself and discuss the best street bike ever made. But what has been sad to me is all three were VFRD members, NOT VFRW members! None were hardcore track day junkies either. The last guy said he only does 2 days a year and he does them to work on his cornering, braking and looking skills. Dude wasnt a bad rider either.

Hey, like many of you I was scared my first track day. All the same thoughts and fears of being too slow, dropping the VFR, etc. That’s common and understandable. But none of it became true and like all the other first timers we were all smiling at the end of the day wondering why we had never tried this before.

Your fears are understood, but take it from someone who has been their…your fears are unfounded.

BZ