bike won't start grounded positive to fram

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by great white north, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Folks,

    Just put the battery in the bike and in the process of tighting the positive touched the frame and had an arc. The fuses all are fine and no signs of anything wrong. The lights come on as well as the console lights up. But nothing when I try to start. Anything I should look for that could fix this problem. Spent about an hour looking at schematic and checking all fuses with a meter to make sure they where okay. I assume it is a relay
    Any help would be great Sorry it is a 2003 800

    Thanks
     
  2. hoganth

    hoganth New Member

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    It may be a fusible link, happened to me on my vf750, mine was on top of the battery relay
     
  3. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    Lights come on everything powers up engine kill switch is in the "Run" position bike is in Neutral and all the fuses in the fuse box located behind the right side fairing panel test okay,then peel back the rubber boot on the Red electrical connector that's plugged in at the magnetic starter switch and locate the Yellow wire with a Red stripe.
    Touch a test light probe to that wire terminal,turn the key switch to the"On" position,and press the starter button. The test light should light up.

    That Yellow wire with a Red stripe is the power wire for the coil inside the magnetic starter switch. When that coil energizes it pulls the switch in and that allows power to get to the starter to start the bike.
    If there's no power on that Yellow wire with a Red stripe when you press the starter button then check the operation of your starter button.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Thanks Stoshmonster
    I'll give this a try. Do you think the arc between the positive and the frame would have caused a problem with the swith? The bike was completly fine last season. Is there a way to bypass the switch and not do any damage to the rest of the electrical system. I did have that boot of checking those wires. Is it as simple as jumping from yellow red to the green red that goes to the clutch diode?

     
  5. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Tried the test light on the yellow red wire and get no response with the key in the on position and activating the switch.
     
  6. Davis5g

    Davis5g New Member

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    I'm with stosh on this one, check your starter wiring. A friend of mine has a shadow 1100 and the starter switch corroded over winter and it wouldn't crank. On on another note, you need to make sure next time you install your battery you do it properly to avoid this. Put the positive terminal on first and tighten it. Then put the negative terminal on and tighten it. This way there will be no chance an arc could occur since the circuit will be open when your working with the positive side.
     
  7. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    But will by-passing the switch cause any further problems? rather then take the whole switch appart. It seems unusuall that the switch would go over the winter as it is stored in my heated garage and worked fine before storage. From my experience usually corrosion on an electrical component will deteriorate over time and cause intermittent problems. I'll check it out. I also found in the haynes manual how to test the engine stop relay
     
  8. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    You can cause problems with digital electronic fuel injection/ignition systems by attempting to bypass circuit paths.

    If i were troubleshooting it, i would want to make continuity checks of the wiring/switches/etc with no power on the system, i.e. remove the battery (negative terminal is first off and last on). Then use a voltmeter on the ohms setting to ring out the wires.

    Was the key in the "on" position when the arcing incident happened? If so then the electronic engine controller was energized and may have suffered damage also.
     
  9. rc24rc51

    rc24rc51 New Member

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    and of course that main 30A fuse shown in the pic was checked straight away?
     
  10. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Fuses where all checked first then when thru other wiring test's. I'm sure the key was not even in the ignition at the time. I'll remove the battery and start to go thru the wires. Also plan to check the Engine stop relay.
     
  11. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    Since there was no power to the yellow/red then trace it back to the switch and verify the switch closes (continuity) when pressed. If that's okay then the power line to the switch needs to be traced thru the sidestand, clutch and neutral switches for continuity at each switch. Or you might be able to do all 3 in series with one test. If all switches okay then the line from the switches back to the fuse block/ignition, etc. Basically ring it out end to end to find the open circuit. Good luck hope it is something easy to find...
     
  12. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    Alright lets just slow down for a second Great White and take this one step at a time.

    No that should have no effect on the starter switch.

    This is one of THE biggest mistakes that most people make when trying to troubleshoot problems. They mistakenly assume that just because the machine worked last year or last week or yesterday or even just a few minutes ago that there should be absolutely nothing wrong with it and it should work now.

    The fact is the machine did work last year it did work last week it did work yesterday it did work just a few minutes ago BUT it has developed a problem and it doesn't work right now.

    Please do not bypass or jumper any wires,there's no need to cause further problems.

    The bank angle sensor,engine stop relay,and fuel cutoff relay all work in concert to control the fuel injection circuit. That's a completely different electrical circuit Great White.

    The problem you're describing (no signal power to the coil at the magnetic starter switch) is in your starter circuit,so forget about everything else for the moment and let's concentrate on the starter circuit only.

    Okay this is good info Great White. I want you to locate the Red electrical connector (which is located on the right side of your bike) that connects your right handset to the main wire harness. In the Red connector on the main wire harness locate the White wire with a Black stripe on the main wire harness side of that connector. Touch your test light probe to that wire terminal and turn the key switch to the "On" position. If the fuse for the electrical circuit is good the test light should light up.

    [​IMG]

    Now locate the White wire with a Black stripe on the handset side of that Red electrical connector and touch the test light probe to the wire terminal. Turn the key switch to the "On" position. The test light should light up. (we're just checking here to make sure that power is getting across that Red electrical connector on that wire)

    Leave the key switch in the "On" position and locate the Yellow wire with a Red stripe on the handset side of that Red electrical connector. Touch the test light probe to that wire terminal and press the starter button.

    [​IMG]

    If the test light does light up and you're still getting no power at all on the Yellow wire with a Red stripe down at the magnetic starter switch then either you're not getting power across the Red electrical connector on that wire,or the Yellow wire with a Red stripe itself is broken somewhere between the Red electrical connector on the main wire harness and the Red electrical connector down at the magnetic starter switch.

    If the test light does not light up then the problem is in either your engine stop switch or your starter switch. Electrical contacts can and do corrode while not in use.

    Power enters the engine stop switch on the White wire with a Black stripe,power passes across the electrical contacts in the engine stop switch when it is set to the "Run" position,power exits the engine stop switch and enters the starter switch on the Black wire,when the starter button is pressed power passes across the electrical contacts in the starter switch and exits on the Yellow wire with a Red stripe,power passes across the wire terminals in the Red electrical connector in the main wire harness,power then goes directly to the Red electrical connector at the magnetic starter switch to energize the coil which pulls the switch in to allow battery power to get to your starter.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    I appreciate all the pics and help. Let me follow thru on the above and get back to you.
     
  14. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    I'm bringing my lap-top out to the shop with me
     
  15. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Okay power on both sides of red connector with ignition on with white/ black wire. No power on yellow/ red wire with switch engaged. Any way to rule out one of the switches. Or should I just remove and inspect both for corrosion?
     
  16. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    Could be either switch.

    Best thing to do is carefully disassemble and clean up the electrical contacts in both switches. If one switch is corroded chances are the other one prolly is too.

    Disassemble them one at a time. Take your time and don't rush it. There are a lot of tiny little parts in those switches.
     
  17. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Thanks again for all your help and the pictures. I'll let you know how I make out once I clean up the switches.
     
  18. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    On second thought try cleaning the contacts in the starter switch first. If your fuel pump primed when you turned the key switch to the "On" position that means that power is getting across the engine kill switch because the Black wire that exits the engine kill switch supplies power to both the starter switch and the engine stop relay for the fuel injection circuit.
     
  19. great white north

    great white north New Member

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    Thanks very much stoshmonster for your help. I sprayed down both switches with contact cleaner and worked them back and forth a few times and the bike fired right up. Cheers from Canada!!!
     
  20. stoshmonster

    stoshmonster New Member

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    Happy to help my friend. :thumb:
     
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