Could the starter be turning backwards?

I saw a similar post, but I haven't had the starter apart. Just got this bike (non-running). Got a new starter because the old one was intermittent. Put the new starter on, and same problem only worse. The starter just spins and doesn't turn the bike over. I pulled the RH cover off, and noticed that the starter pinion gear is turning counter-clockwise as you look at it. I took the pinion gear off, and it free-wheels counterclockwise, and locks up if turned clockwise. Which way is it supposed to turn?

 

Even if somebody knows what direction the starter itself is supposed to turn when looking at the gear end of it??

 

If the starter is spinning and the motor itself is physically not turning at all then it sounds to me like your starter clutch is not engaging properly.

By the way Bluedakotasky there are no mind readers that I know of here at VFR World,exactly what year and model bike do you have?

That sorta info tends to be kinda helpful when trying to diagnose problems. :biggrin:

 

I'm sorry Stosh!! I didn't even realize that I didn't give that info.. :doh:
It's a 1986 VFR700F.
Hey, I think I actually found the answer. See what you think. This other guy had the same problem, and he took the starter back off, turned the casing around 180 degrees on the starter, put it back together and it worked fine! He is saying that his starter was turning counter-clockwise when viewed with the RH cover off, when it should have been turning clockwise. THAT would explain it. It's a brand-new starter. The guy who put the starter together probably didn't realize which way it was supposed to turn??? What do you think? We never expect NEW parts to not work right.

 

Just because a part is new doesn't mean that it'll work,it just means that it's new.

Before you go messing with that new starter (and it could very well be the problem) first check to be certain that your starter clutch mechanism is functioning properly.

Your '86 is an old machine and those old starter clutches were known to fail. By now the springs and rollers in that starter clutch are probably pretty worn out.

 

When I took the starter pinion out, it turns freely one direction, but stops instantly the other direction. Looking at it installed, it turns freely CCW, and locks up CW. The problem, right now, is that the starter is turning it CCW. Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

 

You're saying the starter clutch mechanism freewheels CCW and immediately locks up when turned CW and the starter itself is turning the starter clutch mechanism CCW,then yes it sounds to me like you're on the right track.

 

Okay, good. Before I tear a brand-new starter apart, it's nice to have a second opinion... :chaingun:

 

It does sound like it is spinning the wrong direction to me as well.

 

Well, I drove back out to the shop (what's a 26 mile round trip when I may figure this ****** thing out.) :crazy:
So, I took the starter back off. (Why does the oil filter HAVE to be in the way?)
I don't actually see any way to reverse the direction of starter rotation. BRIGHT idea I had. The positive terminal is in the case towards the back of the starter. Anyhow, I sent an email to DB Electrical. Maybe they will say, "Oh yeah, we must have built that starter wrong............"

 

Okay, I didn't realize this could happen, but the brush holder on the back of the starter can be rotated far enough with the length of the two wires that go to the + wire that those two brushes can either line up with the two "N" permanent magnets, or the two "S" permanent magnets. I took it all apart (couldn't remember how it was when I opened the ** thing up but i did mark it with a purple marker the way it is right now. I'll go try it. The way it looks, I can make the starter turn either direction by the position of the brush holder assembly.

 

The starter motor should be turning CW when looking at it from the gear end, i.e. with the RH cover off so you can see the gear end of the starter shaft. It drives into an idler gear, which rotates ccw as it drives into the slipper (starter) clutch bolted on the end of the crankshaft, which turns cw.

There is a notch in the starter housing that is supposed to be the reference position for mounting the brush block--a tab on the brush block fits into this notch. If it were somehow assembled differently then it would change the phase/polarity of the brushes and the motor would run in the wrong direction.

If the starter was turning backwards then the slipper clutch on the crankshaft should also be turning ccw (the slipping direction)--is that what you were seeing?

 

I could be off base here - somebody correct me if I'm wrong please... You said this is a new starter? Are you sure it's for an Interceptor? Those "other" V45s that Honda makes (Sabre and Magna) turn in the opposite direction. Possible that your parts supplier slipped up and sold you the wrong item?

 

Right on Pops. How do I know that? Hmmmm bought one in my early stages of interceptor repairs, woops turned the wrong way. Learned the hard way!

 

Yup, that is exactly what happened. I bought the starter from DB Electrical in TN. I have very good luck with electrical stuff that I buy from them. However, when I took both starters apart, I took a magnet (didn't matter what kind of magnet) and picked a reference magnet in the starter housing. In the old starter, it repelled my magnet (holding the "front" of my magnet to it). In the new starter, it ATTRACTED my magnet. Poles reversed in the starter housing. The magnets were glued in, so there was no changing them. I called DB Electrical and they told me that was the correct starter for an '86 VFR700F. I'm sorry, they were wrong. Put all the new starter parts in the old housing, and voila! It is now turning the correct direction! Now I found out that the springs were weak in the impulse coupling and it slipped sometimes. So I ordered new springs, followers, and rollers. That fixed that problem!! Problem solved!!! Now I have a different problem for another post!!
Thanks you guys for the info!!!!

 

dang I had a whole two paragraghs for this one...LOL good cacth...