Front Wheel question?

HI everyone!

I have a 1990 VFR750, and after taking the wheels off to go get new tires put on, I put the front wheel on, and realized that there were no collars to set the wheel in place. Apparently it was that way from when I got the bike at the beginning of the summer. Should I be worried about damage to the front end after 5000 miles without them? Are the bearings going to be shot? Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks!

-Converse

 

the 90 didn't use collars from the looks of it. If they were necessary on your bike you wouldn't be able to ride it.

 

so its just a free floating front wheel and the brake rotors hold it in place? That seems really odd to me to design it that way. Plus, when I looked it up on the parts fiche, there were collars for it on the fiche. Any thoughts?

 

oh yea, I forgot to mention that it rode just like "normal" after I put it back together without collars. It bobbled (for lack of better term) in corners, but it did that before I took it apart. Also, my dad rode it, as well as a friend, and they both have quite a bit of riding experience. Neither seemed to think there was anything wrong with it when they rode it. I would not know anything different, since this is my first bike, and minus a 5 minute ride on a Honda Hawk, it is the only bike I have ridden. Just wondering how it could ride without the collars, and I didn't die. I guess I'm just lucky. Seriously though, if anyone has thoughts on this dilemma/question, I would appreciate the input.

 

Hmm... Well the Bandit shows this: 1990 Honda VFR750F INTERCEPTOR Parts, 1990 Honda VFR750F INTERCEPTOR OEM Parts - BikeBandit.com

Looks like there definitely should be collars there - and I wouldn't ride it much without them.

 

haha, yea, thats where I looked too. Also where I ordered the new collars from. Too bad they aren't here now though, because its a perfect day to ride! 60 and sunny!!

 

Riding without the spacers is dangerous and could damage the axle cuz the wheel bearings are free to spin around on it without the collars to lock them in place. In addition, if the wheel is free to move laterally the brake pads can be pushed back randomly, causing the need for an extra squeeze or two to build hydraulic pressure.

 

fiche I looked at didn't show any collars, just the inner sleeve and bearings. Could've been on another screen along with the axle I suppose but for crying out loud if the wheel has play between the forks before you put the calipers back on SOMETHING IS WRONG!

 

Something wrong!?

Okay guys. I just pulled up my .pdf of the '90 VFR fiche. What it shows is exactly the same as what BB has, which is this:

If there is space between the hub and the forks, there should definitely be collars in there.

 

@squirrelman - what kinds of things should I be looking for in terms of damage? Grooves in the axle itself?

@rc24rc51 - I did notice it when it went back together, but prior to that, I have never had the front wheel off, nor any indication that there was something wrong. Once I got it all apart, and then put back together, it was pretty obvious there was something not right. That's why I have not ridden it since.

Any thoughts on what else might need to be replaced? I am already going to do the bearings as a preventative maintenance thing, but should I be doing more?

 

See if you can stick your finger in dah hoe and if it rotates freely. If it has a hitch, replace wheel bearings. Get the appropriate spacer for your front wheel and dont mix them up or leave them off next time! I like to keep things that come off the bike on the side that it came off of. Right spacer goes on floor on right side of bike, left spacer goes on floor on left side of bike. btw, I dont work on the floor anymore :tongue:

 

Is it possible that the spacers were still intact when you took the wheel down to have the tire changed? The mechanics will remove the spacers prior to changing and balancing the tire. They never remember to replace them afterwards.

 

it is a possibility, but I think a remote one. I seem to remember being surprised when I took the wheel off and not seeing any collars/spacers.

 

As an update, I got the spacers/collars, put them on, and the bike is TOTALLY different. It really leads me to believe that they were missing the whole time. No more bobbling in corners, no more drifting in a straight line, and a hell of a lot more control! When I took it all apart, it seems like there is no damage to anything.

Unfortunately, I think either, one of my brake calipers is stuck open, or the other one is stuck patrially closed on the rotor. I have noticed that one rotor is MUCH warmer than the other. Any suggestions on how to clean them up so I don't have to buy a new caliper? Do they make/sell rebuild kits? Would this be a good time to upgrade to braided steel lines, instead of the rubber and metal stock setup, since I need to do work up there anyway? (Any brand suggestions?) As always, any help is much appreciated!!!

 

Get front wheel off the ground, if you have a center stand put it on that and use a bottle jack or small scissor jack under your zorst system. Rotate front wheel and gently apply front brakes, take special note if the wheel stops abruptly. Re-spin the wheel and see if there is resistence. If there is resistence one or both, your calipers are sticking. You could gently bop it with a soft faced hammer (if its a customers bike, use something heavy that relieves tension jk :wink The bop will free up the sticking pads.

If its really bad, you need to do a total re-build of the front calipers. Including cleaning out the calipers and pistons, new O-rings (I have re-used many) and dust seals. You could go to a braided lines at this time so go ahead and get some of those nice Honda crush washers. You need 6 of em. Gud Luck. It was satisfying doing mine as I have one finger stops after enduring a wooden brake lever and shitty rain manners. Cheers :smile:

 

It's simple enough to remove the front brake calipers and clean them. Make sure to lube the slide pins,part numbers 14 and 15 in the pic.

As long as the slide pin dust boots (part numbers 16 and 17) aren't torn or deformed and the brake pistons aren't worn or pitted all you'll really need to rebuild your front brake calipers are the 4 dust seals part number 11 (Honda part number 45109-GE2-006) and the 4 quad ring piston seals part number 22. (Honda part number 45209-GE2-006)

You can if you want to,that's up to you.

I prefer to use HEL Performance braided stainless steel brake lines and banjo bolts. They offer 18 different color PVC protective coverings for their brake lines. Just a heads-up,the transparent covers are particularly nice.

HEL USA link. Click me.>>>>>HEL Stainless Steel & Titanium Brake Line Kits

 

Reason the pistons don't re-tract after you release the lever is that there is crud, or just plain junk that crept in be-hind the main O-Rings. So assuming this is the case, you have to take brake pads out and use the hydraulics to force the pistons out on both sides of the bikie. Takes some balancing as you dont wana have one set pop out and the other remain in.

Brake fluid is nasty shit, if your master is all nasty looking and the bike is close to being 20 years old, you may have to do this. Satisfying using a pick to scrape crundge out of crevices, clean caliper well before re-assembly. What else? Dont know.

Nice Pictures Stoshi

 

What should I use as lube to put it back together, if anything? I'm assuming that the orings need some kind of lube/grease so that they seal properly. Is there something in particular that I should use because brake fluid is harsh stuff, and so I don't get a chemical reaction from it? Anyone have anything against cleaning them up with typical brake cleaner out of a rattle can?

I am pretty certain that one of them is stuck. Most Likely the right one. When I put the wheel back on, and it was off the ground, it spun free without the calipers on, but once they were on, it was somewhat difficult to spin. I am going to take one caliper off, and see if it makes a difference. Should I be cleaning out both if I am going to be cleaning one? I figure the answer is yes, since there is crap in one, so its likely to end up in the other one.

On the up side, having my bike out of commission over the weekend gave me time to work on the paint on the rear fairings. All of the paint on the bike is faded pretty bad, so I am working on cleaning it up, smoothing out the scratches, and re-painting. What I have done so far is looking really good. Once I figure out how to upload pics, I will post my progress. I know I keep saying it, but I appreciate the help and insight guys! There is only so much you can learn with Google...

 

Most auto stores sell a silicon grease that is used specifically for brake system parts (I use "Sil-Glyde"). It works great on seal installation (very light coat) and on all the mechanical surfaces that need to remain free.

Just FWIW, it might be worth taking a close look at all the areas of the bike that might have had some maintenance done, based on the front wheel spacers being left out. That's kind of scary...

 

Thanks LGN. Yea, I was thinking the same thing about a full once over to check it all out. I know this winter that the bike is going to be totally apart, so it will be easy to check it over. Until then though, I think just to be on the safe side, I am going to have to at least look at the major safety parts.

Hey Rider, with the hammer trick, is that to bop loose the pads, or is that to try to loosen the pistons?