The bike the new VFR1200 should have been?

Here and I was almost convinced that harleydoods weren't taxing in the UK.

 

When i first saw the pictures.. I saw the old Kawai GPZ 750 Turbo...

 

I own a 2011 Ninja 1000. I like it. Does it have the character of my dealry departed VFR800? No. But it's more adjustable, faster, more flickable, feels 100lbs lighter even though it's not, and it is a very comfortabole ride. I got mine with the Givi bags and heated grips OTD for $11,240.00 on sale. Any questions I'd be happy to answer. I was not interested in the VFR1200 at all since the day I sat on it in a showroom to the day at Daytona that I tested one. To snatchy down low. It's only happy at 5krpm or better. My Ninja pulls hard at 2krpm and can cruise at 2krpm without spit nor sputter. Very smooth and quiet bike. Do I wish it had a Honda 1000cc V4? Fuck yeah. But it's still a superior bike. in many repsects. the Ninja shines in the city and on backroads as well as highway cruising (it's quieter than my old VFR 800 on the higway). I'd say they did a pretty fair job on it.

 

Just as a reminder, I've had use of a Ninja 1000 for 3 months thanks to Cycle World and Kawasaki. You can see my blogs here:

Cycle World Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Experience

Take a look at the July 30th blog for my final thoughts on the Ninja vs the VFR1200. Bottom line is I'd rather have the Ninja than the VFR800 due to the better power and handling. However, I'd rather have the VFR1200 than the Ninja (so I'm VERY happy with my decision as you can imagine). The VFR1200 is more comfortable for longer rides, it's more powerful, and it has a higher-overall quality feel to it. The Ninja is an awesome bike though and I'm not trying to piss the Wabbit off. For $5k less I'd take the Ninja. For the $2500 difference that I paid for the VFR1200, I'm very happy with my decision. The extreme goodness of the VFR1200 is worth every bit of that in my humble opinion.

 

You won't piss me off. I'm sure the Honda quality is in everything they make. I'll probably nit-pic my Ninja here and there. In fact I have a bit. But for me it's a lighter mount and does what I need. Has bags available and heated grips. I liked that. I just find these days that I don't need even half the power that either bike offers. I like at least a liter because they are more relaxed at higher speeds, i.e. touring duty. The seat on the VFR1200 has more room to move around than the Ninja, and is more padded. I am sure it doesn't have the buzz in the pegs and the bars that my Ninja exhibits (even though they tout it to be smooth it really is a bit buzzy).

One thing I hate across the board is a manufacturer that puts two headlights on a bike but only one works on low beam. I think that's utterly stupid. I loved how the VFR800 used both lights in low. I just leave my Ninja's high beams on all the time. I don't really care that much for the dash arrangement on the Ninja. The font and placement of the trip odometer is over the Clock and sometimes you can't tell which is which if you're not familiar with the gauges. I'm sure a passenger is more comfy on the VFR800 and VFR1200 (I had a sargent seat on mine), but I rarely have a passenger so that was not a factor.

The bars to me, at 6'2" and 175# with a long reach, are in my opinion too close to the rider. I like a bit of lean. I may put standard clip-ons on the bike. The forums already say you should raise the forks 5mm on the Ninja. I say lean a bit more forward and it does the same thing to shift the weight forward.

Beemers to me are very nice but very bulky and heavy IMO, so I stayed away from them. Not because of price. Just don't need a heavy bike. I didn't give the Yamaha FZ-1 a second glance because I've owned them before. The Concours is a bargain, but again a heavy mount. I just don't need it. I was actually looking intensely at the Ducati Monster 796. I tested one and loved it. Just don't need a full naked bike when I like to go touring. But talk about a bike with character? The 796 has it in spades, without being an intimidating mount (same as my old VFR800, IMO).

For a while I was infatuated with the Motto Guzzi touring bike. Decent price, nice features, I'm sure it had character out the ass, but where to buy it and then where to service it?

I ride my bikes every day - rain or shine. Maintenance counts in my equation quite a bit. Honda maintenance on their V-4's is not cheap. It's not bad as some others though (Ducati). The Kawasaki will be cheaper to maintain in the long run. I spent $900 on the Interceptor's valve adjustment... at 25,000 miles (my bad - supposed to be 12k...lol), but the bike only had one intake and two exhaust ports out of spec. And for riding it for almost four years and only putting in for tires, oil, and accessories, I considered my Interceptor a well worth the cost investment.

Everyone finds what they like. I've had Kaws before that I absolutely hated, some I loved. I like this one so far. Long term? I'll see. I have a reputation in my area to shop bikes all the time and buy a new one about every year. The 2006 Honda Interceptor I bought? - I traded in a 2007 Ducati ST3 in for that and never had regrets. I owned the Interceptor till I was hit and it was totaled - almost 6 years.

Dealers in my area would see me coming and say, 'Still on the Honda?' Yep, just loved it. Had they had one at Honda for me I would have bought it again more than likely. But I would have probably compared the newer VFR800 to my old one, which was like a good pair of shoes. It just fit. I've bought two of the same helmets before and theyh fit differently.

I was just amazed that Kawasaki had this Ninja. I didn't even know the model was out there till a salsesman showed it to me. Then I researched the heck out of it and decided it was worth a try. Will I have it next year? Who knows. If something else catches my eye it might be history. I'm sure all my friends in the various dealerships are probably hoping to see me again soomn... lol. Ya just never know.

 

I don't mind the look of it at all, nice Sports tourer, I don't mind the look of the new VF1200 either. All the makers take styling cues from different sources, Their own brand range with similar styling lines & other manufacturers.
Hans Muth was the designer of the 1st Katana (ex BMW) & whether you want to believe it or not, set the standard from which a lot of manufactures took ideas & started the evolution to today's bikes (fairing & tank design. Anyway, the bottom line for bike design is the bottom line. If the Kwaka becomes the bike of choice, then Honda will either tweak the 1200 (cheapest option) or come out with a better version.
The original Katana blew everyone away when it 1st came out, to radical for some & others couldn't wait to get their hands on one. I seem to remember anti dive forks & wot knots & fairing screen that rattled it self to oblivion above 6000 RPM.

 

GuitarX - Just read your blog. Thank you for the link. We seem to see things very similarly in many respects. I found it interesting though that you bought (I guess you bought it?) the VFR when in your blog you mention a couple times how the VFR languished away while you were out riding the Ninja.

Might I suggest you try a set of Pirelli Angel ST's? My first set I got 11,500 miles on and they finally started to ridge a bit in the center of the rear tire. They also reached the tread warning bars. I have never had a finer tire on my Interceptor than those, especially in the rain. The made the bike a lot easier to turn in and the bike was very stable. They also never track lines in the road or draw bridges. Theyh simply coast over them and never upset your steering at all. I know a lot of people will rag me for that choice of tire, but I honestly loved them. When my bike was hit I had a new set of Angels on them and had put nitrogen in them. It does soften the ride a bit and you don't lose pressure like normal air.

On my Ninja it has Bridgestones. They suck. They always do. They cup and bulge at 3,000 miles and have a ton of tread left. I am tempted though to try a set of Road 3's as even my trusted mechanic said they're a bargain for a tire that does sport and touring duty and he said they are high mileage as well. Well, he knows how much I got out of my Pirelli's, so I told him I'd give them a shot.

I also found that the Ninja's screen in 'race mode' was superb on the highway. That freaked me out. But you and I are tall and the blast of air hits at the upper chest. It's not intense even at 80mph+. My helmet is seemingly in clean air. I love the fact that the screen is slick on top and not flipped upwards like too many are. That flip-up creates a dirty, turbulent airstream.

By the way, I'm 50y/o and I've been riding since I was 14 on one thing or another. First bike I ever bought new? - 1982 Yamaha Seca 650 Turbo. First bike? - Yamaha RD400.

Oh, I got the red/black Ninja. The flat black on it is blah IMO. I might just have them paint the whole bike in the red. It's SPARKLY!


Peacemaker - The Katana was a classy sport machine. I think the Interceptor took a few ques from it. I still see them (Katanas) on the road out my way.

 

Ninja 1000

I went to look at the Ninja 1000 last Christmas, although I should have test rode it, I ended up buying the VFR1200 for $12800 out the door with full retail trade in on my Ducati Multistrada 1200. I don't think the VFR1200 is worth like $5000 more than the Ninja, but for a grand or so more maybe so. I rewired 1st and 2nd gears and added a Leo slip-on ($279) and a PC V, so now it runs smooth even around 2500-4000 rpm.
I don't like the heaviness of the VFR, but like others have said, it carries that weight pretty well. I like the lighter weight and simplicity of the Ninja 1000, and I bet it's a great bike too. I had a 2004 ST4 that I put 32000 miles on, and it was a really good all around bike as well.

 

Hey Wabbit1961, thanks for the reply. The only reason my own bikes didn't get much love while the Ninja1000 was in the garage is that I felt I owed it to Cycle World and Kawasaki to give them their money's worth. They were nice enough to give me the bike, I should be nice enough to ride it as much as possible for 'em.

Thanks for the line on the Pirelli STs. I was thinking about trying those but my bud with the Concours 14 said they wore out too quickly. Of course that bike weighs 700 lbs which could have something to do with it. My favorite tires on my old VFR800 were Michelin Road 2s so I'm going with Road 3s next on the 1200. The stock Bridgestone BT021s on the VFR1200 are pure crap and the front developed dangerous ridges on both sides and I'm not even at 2400 miles yet. It literally feels like they could cause me to drop the bike in slow turns. I don't understand how there can be enough riders out there that like Bridgestones to keep them in business but with the experiences I've had with their products I'd buy Shinkos first.

I'm 47 so right behind you. First bike was a '94 Honda Magna 750. Lots of bikes since then, most on the sportier side.

 

Well, I never tested the Ninja 1000 before I bought the VFR! I guess I'm a die hard Honda fan, and have the attitude that Honda can do no wrong! I do, however, really like the idea that the Honda was developed from the ground up, where the Kawasaki has a borrowed motor. It does tend to appear a bit UJM, but doesn't mean it's not a bad ride!

 

I would like to interupt this fine back-and-forth on Kawa versus VFR1200 versus Hogs versus the Entire Civilized World to offer an expression of thanks.

To all the Lesser VFR owners disappointed with Honda, to the Bitter Reviewers, Internet and Paper, and to everyone who has mouthed a discouraging word to a potential VFR1200 buyer, whether you've ever ridden one or not, to all of you my deepest heart-felt thanks.

As a result of all your carping and whining and whinging and moaning, 2010 VFR1200Fs HAVE NOT BEEN SELLING in the USA, and now can be had for really good prices.

I now have 6 motorbikes in the garage (Beemer R, 2 Guzzis, 2 Aprilias and The Red Bike), so I guess if you add them all up I could probably buy any motorcycle I want. About 6 weeks ago I bought a 2010 VFR1200F DEMO with 137 miles and 18 month warranty for US$12,000 +TTL. SO much for the Ninja being so much cheaper.

Note that this is NOT an ususual price for super-low mileage 2010 demos; from what I see on the forums, it's pretty typical.

The VFR1200F is not only the best motorcycle I have ever been ON, let alone OWNED, but at that price, thanks to all those RIVERS of bile about the bike, it's the best BUY, new or used, I have ever made on a motorcycle. And I've been doing this since 1973.

Thanks again, I couldn't have done it without you.

 

amen from another owner of a future classic.

 

Greasy Jo-jo's are best served on a cold plate.

 

Right there with you, 14,700mi. and not one single hiccup and I had a lot of bikes over the years,

 

I am a die hard Honda fan, but...ride your own ride.

 

So because the ins co totaled out the VFR800 I'm in this market and been looking. Current ups and down that I am looking at. For a motorcycle one I do my own wrenching so the oil change aspect of it is high factor. Read the reviews and the 45MPG looks good on the ninja Not seeing any solid mileage numbers on the VFR. Nijna Bad's no option for ABS. Not that i really need it but last accident may have been avoided don't remember fully the details of being cut off by the car but ABS might have kept the bike up right. So its moving to a high +++ point on the VFR in addition the shaft drive means throw away the chain lube less day to day work. I was putting 600+miles a week on the VFR800 Not grabbing the chain lube is a nice selling point The ninja I would have to do this . Current market on both of these bikes seems to be meeting a level ground. With a slight price nod to the Kaw. I have no problem owning either. Other notables are the SOHC on the VFR though down on performance probably means plus ++ points on maintaining. Un sure of the oil location on the VFR but if they made it like the last ones that is a big negative point I didn't like the 800's oil location. Was worst than my ninja 500. The Ninja 1000 looked easy to wrench on. Things that will or would move me to the honda solid is MPG at a 45mpg and the ease of oil changes. Anybody with feed back right on these points would be great.

 

Hey Ignoreance, wish I could tell you how easy/difficult it is to change the VFR's oil, but I've only had it for a couple of weeks, so I don't know the answer to that one. As far as mpg goes, you're looking at about 36mpg or so, so it's it's not superb. HOWEVER, there is no 4000 mile service. First service is at 8000 miles, so you save that way.
As for performance, I love the power the VFR gets, and I love the solid road feel. I love the high quality fairing, with it's multiple layers. And the paint job is superb.
Comparing Paint Smoothness
Honda Civic 7.0
Older Honda motorcycle fuel tanks 6.6
Honda Accord 4.7
Lexus 3.0
Harley-Davidson 1.7
New high-end Honda motorcycle tanks 0.8
, where the lower the number, the higher the smoothness. That's higher than Lexus?
For other factors that you didn't mention, I'd listen to this review:

2010 BMW K1300S vs Honda VFR1200F Shootout - Motorcycle.com
The VFR just feels so refined when you ride it. For example, I was headed into a curve too fast (or so I thought), and I touched the front brake. I easily recorrected my line and kept going. On previous bikes, I would have probably ended up locking up the brakes, being unable to keep going around the curve. So there's something forgiving in the handling, and I personally appreciate it.
I also noticed that the Kawi requires a rack for mounting the saddlebags, if you're planning on using them, whereas the Honda's mount directly to the bike, so no need for a rack install. And if you don't want the bags on, you're not stuck with the rack!

 

The oil change is about as easy as it gets. You remove a 4 bolts, remove the belly fairing, and everything is right there (filter and drain plug are very accessible).

As for mileage, it's not that great but varies wildly depending on use. I've seen something north of 45mpg on the fwy and south of 34 in the canyons. ...it's a 1200cc monster of an engine and will drink as much gas as you feed it! lol If you look at the link in my signature (Fuelly) you can see my history of fuel-ups, though they aren't all in there (sometimes I just don't have my phone or service where I'm at), it will give you an idea of how it does overall.

The single cam isn't a "down" on performance ...I can't imagine needing (or even really wanting) more performance from a motor on a street bike.

I'm only at 9000ish miles right now so I can't yet speak to the valve service difficulty. My suspicion is that it will be somewhat easier than my 4th and 5th gen VFRs thanks to the uni-cam design (and waaaaay easier than the V-Tech), but I traditionally pull the forks and radiator to do the valve service anyway, as it forces me to service those items as well ...which, let's face it, is probably long overdue by the time you're doing valves! lol

As for which bike will be "better" ...only you can make that call. I've said it before, it's almost impossible to buy a "bad" motorcycle these days! ...good times, indeed!!!

 

Can you post a picture of it for us?

 

"Now (referring to Honda) , please get working on a weight-reduction procedure for your soft-core sportbike similar to what you’ve done to your CBRs."

Came across this article after reading the link in post #117 testing an '08 VFR against a BMW F800ST. Whilst I'm not VFR1200 bashing, I have not and will probably never ride one and after seeing it in the flesh I was rather impressed, it just seems another example of how Honda went in the completely opposite direction of what most people hoped/expected the new VFR's would be.