Cam Chain Tensioners - Advice requested

Hi all.

I have recently been becoming more aware of a rattling sound coming from my 6th gen at idling speed and have now developed a unmistakable cam chain rattle when playing the throttle. Unmistakable signs of defective cam chain tensioners.

I am now presented with two options regarding repairing this problem. Replace with OEM parts that will cost me an arm and a leg and will most probably also reproduce the problem in another 50K (Kilometres) time or replace with manual tensioners which offer relief in terms of buying new tensioners when the chains start rattling again.

Considering that replacing these parts represent a major effort and removal of parts that are best left untouched (Even resetting the manual replacements would require removal of throttle bodies) what would be the best way ahead and can the manual tensioners available on the market be trusted not to damage the engine in the long run?

Any and all comments and advice on this topic will be most appreciated. I would especially like to hear form others that have performed this tedious task and also to get some info on how common a problem this is on the VFR series.

Regards

 

You dont need to remove the throttle bodies to replace the ccts. Do a search, there are threads about this.
The manual ones are ok as long as you set the tension properly, overtension them and you get problems.

 

Mike,

Mine were changes at 109,619 km. Front and rear. And it was not that it was rattling for a long time either. Noise started showing up and I had it fixed within a thousand KM or so. I went with stock OEM parts on mine. And so far so good. This was done September last year and I have put over 20,000 km since with no issues. For what it is worth.

 

Mike,

Mine rattled for about 13k miles till I couldn't ignore it any longer. I wanted to pay someone to replace them but I just couldn't afford it so I tackled it myself. It really only took about 45 minutes to do so from start to finish taking my time and was incredibly easy to do so as well. As far as parts were concerned, I think I only spent $90 on the front CCT (which was all that I needed to replace). If I remember correctly, the only thing that I had to do was lift the tank and remove the coolant overflow hose that went between the thermostat housing and the right radiator. After that it was just two bolts that held the CCT in place. Remove and replace, job is done. Super simple and not nearly as complex as the Honda manual made it sound. If you can change the oil and brakes, you can tackle this job... don't let it scare you.

 

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Relieved to hear that removal of the throttle boddies is not required, that type of thing is a job I dread. I will do both att he same time as I am unable to establish which one is the problem. May take some pics of the process to assist others.

Thanks again

Cheers.

 

Allow me to add something here, cause I just went through all this with my 2007.
If you get the OEM parts, MAKE SURE you get the NEW Honda part number ending in a -13.....this is a re-designed tensioner/lifter and internally is not like what the VTEC engines came stock with. And if you order thee OEM tensioners online, they barely cost more than the APE tensioners everyone thinks are so great. Problem with those is that you can tension them improperly and not even really know it until it's too late.
I've done a lot of research on this problem. I just wish to hell SOMEBODY could tell me what happens when this noise is going on??? The noise my bike made did not sound anything like a chain slapping....it was more of a knocking noise at idle, and it would go days and not do it at all, then one day it would begin raising hell again. Even to this day with two new tensioners I still hear it a little bit, but not nearly like it used to be.

 

If you've done the research or if you've looked at your CCT as it comes out, then you know that it is the spring that fails as it comes out uncoiled. You're then left with two things going on inside the engine.

The first is a loose cam chain. You can think of this just like the chain going to the rear tire. If it is too loose, it can slap on the swingarm as it goes around. You normally don't hear this though because there are rubber guides on the top and bottom of the swingarm to prevent the chain from touching the aluminum and it doesn't make any noise you can hear.

The second thing you are left with is the tensioning arm that is freely pivoting inside the engine with zero tension on it. By design, the arm would pivot downward due to gravity alone and make it touch the cam chain. As it does this, the cam chain is going to hit the arm and make it bounce back as far as it can go. You're either going to hear a noise from the chain hitting the arm or the arm hitting the metal cap on the end of the CCT.

It is my assumption that the second part is what causes the noise for multiple reasons. The noise always starts off as a very subtle ticking sound and progressively gets worse. I think this is because the spring doesn't uncoil all at once but rather a little bit here and there over time. The spring slowly uncoiling would cause the room for the arm to swing further upon bouncing off the cam chain, and the metal noise would make perfect sense as it bounces off the metal cap of the now defunct CCT. The noise also goes away once you rev the engine up slightly. This is just like any chain with slack in it and when you put a load on it, it will take all of the slack out of one side (aka the side the CCT is on). Since the chain isn't slapping around anymore due to the tension, the tensioner arm can freely ride on the cam chain until you let off the throttle and reintroduce slack into the cam chain.

 

Yes I've researched as well as took apart one of my old OEM tensioners. I don't buy this notion that the OEM tensioner loses tension. I don't see how that would even be possible. Those tensioners have a threaded mechanism inside. All that spring does is hold the tension on the threaded assembly to keep it from backing off. In order for the tensioner to loose tension that threaded rod inside would have to turn BACKWARDS.....tell me how that could ever even happen?? Even if you take one and support it in a vise, and push on the plunger with every damn bit of strength you have, you cannot make that plunger push back in....you just can't do it. The only way to do it is to turn the threaded part with that little tool they provide with a new tensioner. So to say that the tensioner is simply backing off on it's own is not something I believe.

 

But once the spring is shot, does it keep increasing the tension to adjust for more slack and wear in the cam chain? I'm not thinking that it is backing off, but not adjusting for additional wear. I don't think that it takes much slack for it to make the noise. I do know that it took 10k miles for it to get bad enough that I couldn't let it go anymore so it is certainly something that gets worse very slowly.

 

When I replaced my old tensioners, they were at about half their available adjustment. Dis-assembly told me there wasn't really anything wrong with them functionally. The springs were intact and still "springy" and the threaded adjuster was silky smooth through it's entire range. It is possible to carefully take those tensioners apart and wind the spring tighter which will effectively make the plunger push harder on the chain.
I don't know what that might do to spring life, I'm sure it probably shortens it, but I've just done this to the rear tensioner on my bike. I wanna see if extra "push" on the chain takes away the remaining noise I have. Who knows. I'll keep you posted.

 

Not by any means do I not belive that these CCT's have mechanical failures, but my big problem was them not liking my oil. When I used Mobil 1 M/C oil in 10w40 the noise decreased some. I thought this was mainly because I was using a lighter and correct oil as I drained 15w40 out of her. This was not the case as when I did the next change with Spectro 10w30 the noise was back with a vengence IMMEDIATELY. Brand and composition of the oil seems to make a bigger difference than any other factor with these silly CCT's IMO.

 

Thanks all.

Well the new tensioner is arriving today and given the time I hope to do the replacement tomorrow sometime. Have been keeping my riding to the minimum since last week Monday and facing the daily traffic by cage has motivated me to get this job done even if it means having to do it at night.

Oil may indeed play an important role. The first time it started clicking she was just about due for an oil change and I replaced the "dealership" oil with Castrol Magnatech 15W40 as reccomended in local biking circles. No more noise and everything returned to normal for the next 4.5K k's. As I replace oil every 5K, the next replacement cured it once again but only for just over 3K and so on. The problem got progressively worse quicker after each oil change.

What got me all "rattled" (No pun intended) is when the rattling noise changed to a loud clicking sound. Engine temperature also changes the rev range this occurs at with a cold engine being silent with knocking only occurring round 2K rpm and a semi warm engine clicking like crazy at idle. At operating temps it occurs right thru the rev range and occasionally clicks at idle. Although opinions seem to be divided as to whether a loose cam chain can actually "climb" a tooth on the cams or not, the sound unnerved me to such an extent that I'd rather not be taking any chances. One "dead" bike in the garage is more than enough.

In any case, I hope to photograph the replacement process and post it here for the benefit of others needing to tackle the same job.

Thanks for all the contributions, Regards

Mike

 

I can say this: oil has nothing to do with it on my bike. I've tried 5W30, 10W30, and 10W40. Yes I've spent a lot of money on oil in this thing simply in the name of trying different viscosities. None of them made any difference. It made the same noise regardless.
As I mentioned yesterday I took the rear CCT off and I wound the little spring tighter, and re-installed it. The wife and I went out last night and I did NOT hear the noise. Usually I had been hearing it every time I rode. I'll ride it much farther today and see if remains quiet.

 

Where is the fuel filter on these VFR's?? I've had the tank lifted, I saw a pressure line from the tank to the engine and no filter in between. Is it in the tank?

 

Yep, it is inside the tank. It is a pain in the ass to get to. I'm assuming that this design was chosen because the pump is also located in the tank. Locating the filter inside the tank allows for the fuel to be filtered in a low pressure situation prior to the fuel entering the pump.

Fuel Tank Microfiche

See Part # 10 on the fiche. It is on the right side of the picture.

 

Thank you, that's what I needed to know.
VERY SORRY I hijacked the thread for that.

 

It's all good.

 

Well guys, took me two weeks to get to and another to post but here goes.

Remove the fairings and fule tank. Be carefull, removing these pipes (Fule line and return) pisses gas all over the show if your tank is not empty. The side pannels can actually stay put but remove to avoid dammage.

Remove the airbox and plug the throttle boddies to avoid stuff getting in. Start like when replacing an air filter element and then loosen the forcing cones which loosens the bottom part. Remov the two sensor unit plugs and air pipes and remember their positions. TIP! take photos all the way. Notice the Wiring harness plug on the right? thats where were heading!

Unplug the wiring harness and place out of your way. Remove the fuel return pipe and the two thin coolant pipes below it. Keep radiator closed, the ailock keeps the coolant in.

Remove the old rattler and re-use the cap and gasket from the old. Insert new and remove the tab at teh back only once the new unit has been fastened properly.

Re assemble in reverse order. Use photos when in doubt.

Cheers.

 

You sure did it the hard way. You did a number of things that aren't necessary, specifically taking the tank off, which is a pain in the ass far worse than replacing the tensioners IMO.

 

I tried following the advice from further up this thread and go in form the side but its all frame and pipes from either side so the top is the only way i could figure out to get there.

Still had a slight rattle when the bike warmed up and removed, retentioned and replaced the rear tensioner in half an hour flat. The rear one is easy enough with removing the footpeg hanger from the heatshield being the only bit of effort. Purrs like a kitten now.

I do however agree, removing that tank is a huge pain in the butt. If there is indeed another way, maybe some photos would help clear up the route?

Thanks to all for their comments etc.

Cheers

Mike