V4 racing project

Discussion in 'Racing & Track Days' started by hondarv4, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. TOE CUTTER

    TOE CUTTER Mullet Man

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    I have dumped some stupid money into a couple of gen2's. Never came close to the numbers described and just built a couple of bomb's that over heated badly. Wish I had that money back but I know better now........maybe. A very difficult platform for major mod's for gen 2 and less forgiving in the later gen's. I am open minded but a Roth IRA is much better place for your money. My two cent's. Good luck.
     
  2. havcar

    havcar New Member

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    That, or an RSV4 etc etc, originally built for track purposes to begin with. I sincerly respect the efforts made in engineering a unique motorcycle, but cheaper and faster has it's merits too.
     
  3. jazclrint

    jazclrint New Member

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    Wow, cool bike! I'm gonna make some comments, then I'm going to ask some intelligent questions unlike some others.

    I was on the VF/VFR list for a long time and then went to college, got busy, and just check in here from time to time, so take my comments as you will.

    As far as 150hp from an RC36 engine block, I believe it is completely possible. Here's why. If you dig like I did years ago I think you will find that the RC30 engine blocks came off of the RC36 assembly line and were shipped over to HRC. So then engine blocks are exactly the same. So, if you could get the HRC parts, you too could make a 160hp RC36. So a bored (and stroked?) out motor making that kind of power does not seem unrealistic, especially with the engineering types hondarv4 seems to be paying. And I don't think 13k rpm for a race motor (read: short life span) is unrealistic either, especially with the advantage of gear driven cams.

    That being said, the RC30 and RC36 motors are NOT RC45 motors. The blocks are completely different, in that the gear dive was moved from the middle to the side, and the RC45 was much more over square for racing. This last part leads to my personal theory as to why the VFR800 came out bigger. They needed more torque for street ability, and no one's racing them, so why not.

    As far as big bang. Some one on the VF/VFR list did that exact thing. I think the called it the farkle motor or something. This was somewhere around 2001. Now, remember the RC45 and RC30 are 360 cranks, while the RC36 and RC46 are 180 cranks. So, unless hondarv4 has put a 360 crank in there, he's not going to get a big bang. What you get is more like a long thumper motor, in that all 4 cylinder fire in order. And, yes, on bikes that old the spark plugs fired every time the motor went to TDC, so there was no problem with the ignition. While I am all for projects, and just seeing. And this project especially, I would like to just say that the big bang motors were used in the later GP500 V4s and the current Duc MotoGP V4 because they had very narrow and peaky powerbands that were hard to ride (unless you are Casey Stoner or Mic Duhan) and offered little traction. Mostly because they had years of development and were putting out ridiculous amounts of power an insanely high RPMs. I believe they actually went away from big bangs in 500s in the end because of the traction control was coming in and getting good. But that was right as the 4 strokes took over. So, with the 180 crank, you already kind of have a big bangish motor. Definitely a unique one at those kind of power levels. Also, I'm not certain you will have any kind of peakiness to worry about.

    I met some guys in VA when I was stationed there who wrenched a bit (insert grain of salt here), and they said they built up an RC36 just for grins and chuckles. They got good hp (125ish), but they got brute torque out of their build (80ish if I remember the story). They claimed they had to brace the frame and swing arm. But, it was a story. If that story is to be believed, you may have a harder time getting the HP numbers, but torque shouldn't be a problem.

    It seems, you would help yourself greatly if you could source HRC crank, heads, carbs, ignition, and airbox for an RC30. Maybe it does fit into your build?

    I am really curious as to how you got the handling dialed in. Some European journalists built up a VFR800 to show Honda the kind of VFR they had wanted around the time the 1200 was released. They put every trick ricky racer thing on it, but the inherent street geometry remained. It was better handling, but just not race bike handling. What have you done to affect the handling of the RC36 chassis? Was it all done with the mounting of the swing arm to affect headtube angles? Is the wheelbase shorter? Did you have the headtube angle modified? Offset triple? Enquiringly minds want to know. :D

    Great build!
     
  4. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    I posted some new pictures in my gallery, getting a 360 crank is some difficult, The airbox is allready in use, the wheelbase 1450mm , the handling was very good 110 hp, this can change with more power altough I don't think so. It rock stable, follows any input perfectly, my friend who is a part of the project , was racing in the World Championship back in the 80'ies said: I qoute: It's a fantastic bike , handles remarkebly well, outbrakes any other bike on the track it needs more power, that's why we started to tune the engine, we do have some good enginers in Ge. And all the stuff I put in to it new and developed for the Bike. I very intrested in how every thing works out. It has to be finished late may this year!
     
  5. 2wheel`tone

    2wheel`tone New Member

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    So how about that Dyno sheet?
     
  6. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    Pistons compared.jpg Piston.jpg It will probably be available in march, it will published as soon as I have it!
     
  7. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Who needs a dyno sheet? I wouldn't waste my time trying to convince or prove anything to anybody on this forum. Just keep doing what you're doing and let the wannabe's blow smoke.


    .....
     
  8. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    You're so right, I'm not stopping doing what I do, thats my baby and beeing a petrolhead, well .....
     
  9. 02 VFR Rider

    02 VFR Rider New Member

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  10. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I didn't used to understand this. Why wouldn't someone want to throw up a dyno sheet to show what they'd done. Once I decided to open my wallet and put my own bike on a dyno, I realized the shit ain't free, it cost me real money, and why would someone want to give their hard work away? Racers don't post up dyno sheets on their pit wall, the team takes their hard work to the track and kicks ass at the checkers.
     
  11. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    1. pic : The left is the original and the one one the right is the modified, you can tell from the couloring,

    2. pic : The lower is the modified piston
     
  12. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    Dyno time is expensive, here in Ge I have to pay 250 euros per session. Your second option is a lot more fun!!!
     
  13. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I found a local shop last week with a dyno. The owner has worked in metric shops but now he specializes in Harleys. He seems like a real good guy that really loves bikes and didn't come off like some know-it-all prima donna. Had a good time talking with him, running the bike, and talking about mods. He's currently building a Harley for a guy (with too much money) that will have a turbo and they are shooting for 200hp. The bike is to be finished and displayed at the Denver bike show later this month.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
  14. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    Sound like a nice guy, but I keep my Harley in stock trim, my wife wants to use the pillowseat in summer. She hates it when I open the throttle .
     
  15. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    The only arguement I have is that a forum is for sharing information, not concealing it. That's from my own narrow perspective, however, and I understand that we all view things the way that we do. Personally, I am happy to share what I know with whoever can benefit from it, and many here have offered input on things I've asked about, or corrected me when I have been wrong.

    Everybody spends time and money in their life acquiring information. It is my hope to save somebody else some of the pain.
     
  16. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    No argument there. Happy to help many people fix broken stuff. Save them some headaches and share experiences. .....My battery's dead, how to change a headlight, fork seals, valve adjustments, what shock options will fit my bike....

    But when a guy is building a race machine and pouring an exorbitant amount of money into it - if you want the proof "meet me at the track." Building a race machine and doing real R&D design stuff isn't the same thing as the AutoZone, over the counter, bolt on mod.
     
  17. 02 VFR Rider

    02 VFR Rider New Member

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    tink, here is the deal
    it would be wonderfull to see the info, as it would help others to see what kind of cost per HP to begin to see if it fits in the buget so to speak.
    I would also like to see the info and try to adapt it to my 6th gen.
    you guys would bash me if I posted up something w/ big claims w/ nothing to back it up with.
    I also give another member on this site a hard time about not sharing info on 6th gen mods.
    also if the kid pulls it off, I would then be able to contact the person who say - made the crank or pistons or cams to see if I can place an order
     
  18. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    The bike is scheduled for a builder contest in june, I do want to stick to the rules
     
  19. hondarv4

    hondarv4 New Member

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    go personal?
     
  20. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not saying a guy "shouldn't" share. I'm saying I understand if a guy doesn't "want" to share intimate detail. It's one thing to say, "I made pistons and cams. I had to use different valves blah blah.." and another to spend thousands doing R&D and then just give away the specs to anyone willing to log on to the internet.

    If a guy decides to pony up his hard earned cash to figure something out, then why should everyone else expect to be privilege to that knowledge for free? If a guy wants to or chooses to share details with his friends or everyone then good for him.

    If a painter figures out some new technique that wows everyone who sees his art, is he required to share with the world "how" he did it?
     
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