Camshaft lifter tool?

^ Well noted thank you for the post.

Since I did pick up a Factory tool a little while back I am going to give Robyn Lander's method a go the next time I adjust the valves. I figure it's worth a try to see if I like using it.

Motorcycling -- The Honda V4 Files and More

 

Did they show signs of tight valves? Thats what i would bet....




Also...does anyone have a actual copy of the service bulletin, or know of a link?

 

Kinda...I don't have a copy of the Service Letter #13 but I do have the Service Bulletin:





This bulletin notes, on page 2, the '84/'85 intake and exhaust lash should be set at .16mm when using the Factory tool.

The Labor Flat Rate of 2 hours sure is impressive!

 

Thanks a ton IC!

I actualy have that one...but you've given me a much larger copy to save.....

 

You're quite welcome DG. I hope this is of help.

Will you be ordering up on a 'new' VF500F? Always nice to have another owner here.

Lots of good people and good info.

 

I hope to soon, but just finding the things is hard.

I just saw where somebody bought one with 2K from cali ( the official VF500 addict thread )...same color as mine was. That bastard!

And I've been reading about all the parts that are NLA for them now. Makes wonder if i really want to put the effort into fixing one thats a basket case.

Sad part is, the hulk of mine was still sitting in my back yard as late as the fall of 2007. I gave it away to a guy who said he was going to try and fix it. If nothing else, i would have had spare parts...

It just goes to show you that the people on American Pickers are right! You never throw anything away.

 

Yeah, 100% on the Cali bike. If I had a West Coast zip code I would have been seriously tempted.

They do come up from time to time, maybe two or three a year on eBay, in the 7k -15k mile range. As you know, the VF500F's engine (valve train) really requires dedicated maintenance but if you can find one with low miles with a decent mechanical history you'll be in good shape. Also, having room for a few spare parts bins is a prerequisite ;-)

 

Exactly. It seems as though the tool acutally did more harm than good.

Here is the Sevice Bulletin for the cam holder tool in question:

http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/temp/HSBV4SL13.pdf


You'll notice that it "applies" to all VF models. Enjoy!

 

Thanks!!!!

 

Thats great!!!

 

I've always used the two feeler gauge method on my 83 750. I never knew about this tool until I came to this site. My engine still has the original cams at 60k miles. I've always adjusted them to a medium to loose .005".

 

If I could ask, the '84 FSM that I have notes the intake valve lash at .12mm and the exhaust valve lash at .13mm.

The FSB notes .16mm when using the tappet adjusting tool. I haven't used this tool as of yet but I am wondering what the valve lash ends up being when the tool is removed and you check with the two feeler gauges.

Given the longevity of Grey's cams is it best to set the intake and exhaust at a clear .13mm?

Thx!

 

I think that's the knock against the tool. If you use it and then check the clearance without it, there is none!

 

I see, so .16mm with the tool = .00mm when you check without the tool?

This leads me to ask, how do VF engines survive when you do not use the tool if there is that much play?

From what I have read several owners here (with many years of experience) do not use the tool and don't seem to have any issues -as noted Grey has logged 60k setting the lash to .13mm without the tool. Is the lash super wide on these bikes and is this okay?

 

Pure conjecture follows....

A) If you look at most service manuals you will see that under excessive valve clearance they usually only list excessive noise as the consequence. We know there are other pitfalls of this...but it could be that modern ( in 1984 ) metallurgy has advanced to the point that valve-trains...even those with a poor rep like the VFers, can just take it for 60K! Remember, not everyone runs their bike at redline all day, and let's face it, there are thousands of bikes and quads out there that are in need of adjustment that have never gotten one. They usually keep going for a long time with no apparent ill effects.

B) If the bikes needed the tool and didn't use it, it still wouldn't be like straight-out excessive clearance. The cam "gives" as it attempts to to open the valve, and then returns as it closes, so while there is enough play to make noise, its not "hard" play like simply having the clearance too great at the adjusters. Its
( relatively ) cushioned, in other words, and this may help reduce the ill effects of a lot of slop.

C) Many bikes may not need it. My bike had a checked past to be kind. It had just received a full 3 page printout worth of parts before i bought it. It had just been rebuilt, but we all know that most of the techs out there are pretty slack and really shouldn't be working on anything but a bicycle. Add up cam journals on the large end of the wear limit with cams on the small end of their limit, and suddenly you have the room for more potential movement and thus, more need for the cam tool.

For the record, my bike showed no ill effects that would be symptomatic of insufficient valve clearance.

 

^ Thanks for the post. An interesting topic for sure!

 

All solid type cams have opening ramps and closing ramps ground in to their profiles. These ramps are to take up the slack to ease the followers (lifters/rockers depending on design) on to or off the profile of the cam lobe nicely. There is a tolerance that can be played with. The VF cams are very tight in those tolerances it seems. Also the specs are given cold. As the parts heat up to temp those tolerances will change towards the tighter side.

For example I'm more familiar with car engines. My play car has a solid lifter cam in it. The cold lash is .022" with hot being .020". I can play with the lash to make the cam seem bigger or smaller (basically). By tightening the lash to .018 cold the cam will act a tad larger. Opening it more will do just the opposite and might be a little noisy. Either way it's not hurting the parts provided I don't go to far. Even with the .022 it runs quite. It all depends on how the lobe profile is ground. With that being said.

With the tight tolerance of the VF cams being .001 loose is not going to hurt anything. If they are .001 or more to tight I can see a problem of interference clearance. Where as the parts are fighting each other once hot and wear begins and may not show up for a while. If it does it's in the wearing of the parts contact surfaces. Most cams and lifter/followers have a flame harden surface. That surface will wear away and that's when you have a problem. When things get to tight you need better oils to protect them. That's why motorcycle oils have more percentage of ZDP (zinc) in them. So metal to metal contact doesn't happen at the micro level with the tight tolerances they have.

So if the bearing holders on the VF motors flex or let the cam flex I can see where the tolerances are gone and problems begin. If they would of been designed better I doubt there would be a problem. It seems like the tool used is just a bandaid to get a larger more even setting. Depending on who's doing the adjustment will depend if it works or not. I've known people who can break a bowling ball in a sand box. That could be a lot of the problem there.

Either way with or without the tool I would still use two feeler gauges so as not to twist the rocker arm. Which would cause uneven contact with the cam under pressure. JMO

p.s. About 1/3 or more of those miles are very hard running and most of those were long distance wise.

 

Thank you for the post Grey.

I'm still a bit puzzled...

If you have a valve lash reading of 0mm when the tool is removed compared to setting the lash without using the tool (two feeler gauges) you have a lot more added in - without the tool - than what the Factory is thinking the lash should be - given the cam movement inside the journals.

It seems like when you use the tool the lash is way tighter (much more than a +/-.01mm difference) than when you don't.

Am I missing something?

 

True...so true.
I've heard of guys breaking 450 Foremans.
That takes skill.