84 'Ceptor FUEL INJECTED in the Works

I agree except fuel injection costs MUCH more than a carb!!
Air mass meter very expensive.
Injectors very expensive. Sensors very expensive.
and anything NEW has higher prices.

 

I do not like the way they mounted the V4 carbs, and I do not like all four being connected with those plastic tubes. BAD IDEA. The float bowl vents can all go back to the aluminum tray like the 49 state model has it.
They should be separate and have fuel LINES, not dam plastic tubes.
Honda needs to get motorcycle people back into the motorcycle dept.
And all that stupid linkage could be eliminated, with duel throttle cables with each one splitting and controlling two carbs. Very common part.

Look at some of the new V 4 fuel injected engines and you see the intake tubes are slightly longer and vertical.
It changes the torque too.

Also if you are building a racing bike and you use carbs use the carbs that have the throttle cable directly connected to the carb slide. NOT the vacuum operated type. If you look down the throat of a vacuum operated carb watch the operation of the slide when the engine revs and you will see it fluttering . When you pull the cable of the slide of the cable operated slide it has better sensitivity and does not flutter.

Vacuum operated slides were developed for places that have low and high elevations and the atmospheric pressure varies. But you know when we live and race at a track that is the same elevation you do not need that.

I live near sea level and the elevation does not change more than 100 feet in 60 miles.

New is not always better.

 

Interesting topic.

 

I s it winter in NY already? squirrel...... how about just laying off what the guy wants to do why the hell do you care? If he wants to build a bike and put a HOLLEY 650 double pumper on it WHY do you have to be negative ALL THE TIME. IIRC he said he had a friend that was an engineer that was going to design an FI system.. doesn't sound like they are backyard shade tree mechanics to me.... and yeah , you are allowed to vioce your opinions, but your social filter between your brain and your mouth/fingers just ain't working... chill the hell out , wish the guy luck and if it fails them you can say "I told you so" . Sheesh, it's not like you are giving him the money to do fabrication..


I say good luck and it will be an interesting build to watch come to fruition ..

 

I tried two 40mm keihin's from a Kawasaki 1500 v twin with manifolds that I fabricated. It started right up.

I might go back to a single 40mm again.

 

I agree with Crusty, why all the negative feedback? It's his bike and time/money. We don't learn if we don't try. It's definitely a huge task, but if it weren't for people who thought like him, where would we be?
I'm kinda hoping all this negativity will push him to the "nobdy tells me what I can and can't do" point and make it work.
Go for it man, and good luck!!

 

I don't think there's any real reason to get too excited about this topic and what people think about it.

Can you FI a 1st gen? Anythings possible.

Should you? Depends who you ask.


My money is on this never going past the "design" phase. Any takers?

 

Boy, it's a good thing the folks who design and produce motorcycles don't think like you guys. If so we would still be riding CB350's, changing points once each year, and sliding around on bias ply tires.

I'm all for it, in fact it's one of the projects I've been meaning to do myself. How about making it a group effort? If you get a couple of positive-thinking people together you might be surprised at what happens.

As for cost, Megasquirt is only a couple of hundred dollars so it won't be that expensive to make it work. I'd say somewhere in the $500-600 range.

 

wouldn't it be "similar to putting FI on an old car? principle is the same ...I guess you would have to find injectors to fit...

 

so FI has not enhanced performance in any way? I call bullshit ....produce evidence that proves this. and the only thing you have said that is correct is that FI gives better fuel mileage...

and there was no mention of a bad running bike...

 

Taking the same engine that has a properly tuned carb and put FI on it and if you think your going to make more (top end)power your misguided. That's if your using the same throat dia. Go to any drag strip and watch the older Mustangs with 5.0 motors run. Quite a few are built using the same packages. You'll find FI motors and carb motors and they run basically the same times. I've known guys that have changed from carb to FI and haven't really gone faster. Some have gone back to carbs. That's only drag racing though. Where top end power rules. Kind of.

Your right about the tune-ability of FI that it will do or you can do with it. But it also has some limitations just like everything with motors. If I was roadracing I would prefer FI over carbs. Carbs like the Q-Jet and Webers are very complicated in design. They are very tunable if you know them well. But they still have the basic carb circuits that all carbs have. Once you understand each circuit and how they interact with each other and different motor builds. Then they are not that hard to tune. FI is the best for big swings in weather and altitude changes. But they can only go so far with the injector size being used. Which most cover a wide range.

Now if you want to combine the two worlds. Like having to tune like carbs. Then work on mechanical fuel injection like on blower motors such as a TAFC car. Ever hear of barrel valves?................................

 

You do not know what you are talking about.
10,000 feet? Colorado (Pikes Peak) is only 8,000 feet. They have had cars with carbs racing up that mountain for many years.
As far as changing main jets that would not be necessary at all. The mixture gets richer as you go up, NOT leaner, and the main jet only controls the last 1/4 throttle.
I have driven to the top of Mt. Lemon in Tucson, Arizona (10,000ft.), with a stock carbed bike and did not have to do any jet changes . all I had to do was reach down and turn my idle up a bit.

And try to remember that old guys have lived through many more technological developments in their life than a young guy has, so we are more adept at making changes.

BTW I am 61 years old and have been to a computer school that cost 16,000 dollars. I have a masters degree in art. I worked at Kinko's for 2 years in the graphics dept. and had to alter and print files for the biggest corporations and know how to run all of their lame programs. They found out not all files can be made into PDF files and if you did convert to a PDF file many times it could not be altered again without MORE add on programs. We had to print files and alter files from almost every program you can imagine. Yes I know what a rainbow is too.
We even taught young people looking for apartment that they could get in their car and drive within a few blocks and get an apartment, without the help of a computer. Many apartments were owned by people that still did not use the internet to advertise. That was a real revalation to a 20 year old person.

 

Megasquirt? Thats just the beginning. What about the injectors and intake parts and the crank and cam position sensors? What about the fuel pump, rewiring, and throttle?

Driving around on CB 350's with points ignitions.

Why don't you just call us stupid.

Is that all you can come up with?

BTW you might be thinking about a CB350 when you are told it is going to cost $$$$$xxx$$$ to fix your modern bike.
Those dealerships charge $70.00 just to change your tire.

Where I grew up we all changed and balanced our own tires.
But the young guys cannot even change a motorcycle tire anymore.

 

Pikes Peak is a tad over 14,000 feet. The elevation change is about 7,400 feet.

Pikes Peak Information | Pikes Peak Facts

Cars? You had cars? Luxury! All we had were sticks and round rocks that we tied to our feet with vines, and we were glad to have them too!

 

Yep, injectors are for pussies, and young guys with no concept of what performance is all about. Don't belive me, just ask anybody running a top fuel dragster in NHRA, they'll tell you all about their super duper carbs they're running, 20 years ago.......................

A very ambitious project, sounds cool, good luck and keep us updated, with PICS!!

 

Ok, you are stupid. :tongue:

The dealer I go to charges $40/front and $45/rear. Balancing is $10/each, but I don't have them do that.

I have my friend (who is 31 years old) change them for $25/set and then we use Dynabeads to balance the tire. The CBR954RR was rock solid at the track at 158 mph this past weekend.

 

Yea but the people who design and build motorcycles actually get shit done.

No offence to the OP but a person on a Message board says someone he knows is thinking about making his bike FI, and hopefully they'll do his next....you kinda have to take it with a grain of Salt.

If you said you were going to do an FI conversion Jamie, or Toe Cutter, or Squirrelman, or any other member who has taken on large projects and completed them I'd be excited and eager to see pictures.

But in this case I don't really expect much.

 

Top fuel cars are running mechanical fuel injection. Totally different from what is being talked about here. Same basic system as the TAFC cars. It's not really a modern FI per se. No electronics at all to control the fuel flow. Just a bunch of different size holes called jets. Back to the question of "Ever hear of a barrel valve?"

Actually FI started by using carb body look-a-likes. Stuff from Ford, GM and even Holley with their "Pro-Form" series. Called throttle body injection. Electronic squiring of the fuel in a carb like body with venturies and throttle plates. It didn't start with injectors. But then again some of you guys weren't born yet to know about them.