Ninja 650 vs VFR

The V is not out of date, not by a long shot.

True, it is not hyper developed liked the I4, but that doesn't make it out of date. It has some very good characteristics, that are different from a I4. If the I4 was the end all be all, then every bike on the market would have one, and they don't. Instead we have V2, I2, O2, I3, V4, O6, V8 and that is just off the top of my head.

And god, not to go personal, but you are an idiot or have a staggering lack orf understanding of what is involved in riding if you thing the VFR is an unsafe bike.
If you are riding at that "high stress" level, on the friggin street, you will shortly end up in a long black bag with a long zipper down the middle.
I hate to burst your precious little bubble but the CBR1000 does not even come close to a top of the line suspension either.
And I guarantee you that there are several riders on this board, who could ride the pants off you on your CBR, on their VFR. The performance envelope of either bike is soo incredibly large, that it is likely that none of us here is really stretching it any. Myself certainly included. Not on the street anyway. The main limiting factor of what either of them can do is the knob, or knobette, at the clip ons. Heck, you can drag the bags, if you have the skill, and the nerve, on a Goldwing or a K1200LT. Either of them have tremendous ability -- if you were to need it, and knew what you were doing. Either with a good rider, would spank a poor rider on a CBR1000. I have no problem admiting that Miguel Duhamel on a ST1300 would be able to lap me on a CBR1000 in a multi lap race on a track.
It doesn't matter how capable your bike is, if you can't provide the right input.
And again, if outright, at the edge steering ability is tops on your list, a CBR600RR will change direction faster than even the CBR1000. So you better run right out and get one, before you hurt yourself. And it will be all Honda's fault.
Heck, when I bought my BMWK1200RS to Sears Point racetrack several years ago, I was passing CBRs! Not all of them mind you, but some, and Ducatis, etc. And that is not a sport bike.
Ride a standard, or a cruiser and then tell me the VFR is unsafe.

Better yet, rather than throwing opinions back and forth, get some hard numbers from an insurance company. How many accident claims do they get on CBR100s compared to VFRs? That is the only way to really know. break it down percentage wise so that the higher sales volume one doesn't skew the results. Ideally check with several companies, to make sure, one companies rate structure doesn't skew the results, but even without that, I am pretty confident of the results.

And feeling safe, is not the same as being safe...

 

old ski racer,vfr44,don't be bashing, eh,vfr vs i4,I'm no pussy on eh VFR

 

"The VFR is too heavy, old technology, under powered compared to the many other sport tourng bikes. The world has moved on."

I'm not sure the world has moved on. I think you need to broaden your view point ... what do we have: the sprint and the duke. The fj and the bmw k are 150lbs (+or-) heavier --- so they don't fit your plan. If you change the vfr to an in-line 4 is it still a vfr --- me thinks not. Unstable --- this is the first I've heard. I change lines, etc mid turn at 60 or 70 and have no problem. The aprilia is cool, but no longer produced and it was an italian answer to the vfr (who copies who he asked); and it's not as comfortable and has no abs (and tends to put my right hand to sleep). Now that new aprilia 1000 for 2008 looks interesting ...... As a last note, I think in this day and age the only real difference lies in the rider him/herself ... specifically in reference to stability, safety, and performance. I really think the best bike has two wheels and a rider with a big smile on his/her face.

 

Wow Spike I'm with you, but man tells us how you really feel

Yo Dude VFR44, you don't know me so we don't owe anything to each other, But you haven't followed me have ya, so to say I can't hang with the new and the latest sport bike is horse dung. Ask RW. Funny thing too, that gent that bought that CBR1000rr, guess what, I'm the one that told him to buy it. he rode with me, had an older BMW 1200R I believe, and look what he went and did . Thing is this, look at it this way okay, you by a 1000rr cool, I say really okay, now you ride on the same street I do right, okay, you can only use what maybe 60-75% of that bike if you know what your doing on the street. I use 90% of mine, safely too. so yes you can say the CBR1 is better but only in your mind it is which is a good thing you bought it you better like it. Another thing since Spike brought it up, Ha ha guess who I had the pleasure of learning some of my skills from, yep Reg Pridmore, know what bike he had at the time? Yep VFR 750, so don't go saying the VFR is out dated. I've out ran a many new sportbike, thing was I didn't intend too just my skill level took it there, no brag intended, You do know it's like 80% rider to 20% bike? In fact if ya look at it, not that there's a huge comparison, but Moto Gp is coming back to what? Gee V4s 800cc. now you go tell em they're wrong and they won't work as good as an I4 Ha!
So all is good, you like the CBR for what it can do. I like it too. I have a 954 at my disposal too, does it make it better than the VFR. Nope, try going 300+ miles on it then tell me how you're feeling, being honest too please..and if thats not enough for you to believe, come on out to my side. I'll take you on some roads that you can try and keep up on for 200 miles before there's a break, so wear some support shorts, you'll need em, ask me how I know. Thank you for letting me get my 2cents worth.

 

VFR4464 Please, please.... please please please.... go buy a CBR 1000 (which I really like but is too much bike for my inexperienced self (11+ yrs)) and find a CBR website to post to. This is a VFR website... for people who like VFR's.

My daughter thinks that her pink bike with streamers is better than my VFR... but I don't let her on VFR world for just this reason.

 

VFR4464 you must be young and a semi new rider because you just don't get it :doh: CBR with heli's becoming a great sport-touring bike??? And it is impossible to compare an ZX-14, CBR1000 and a VFR. Three different bikes for three different type buyers...

After reading your posts I knew there would be smoke coming from Spikes keyboard and he was going to come hard with a ten paragraph retort :lol:

 

You may think what you like, If honda made a few improvments to the bike it would be great, I think Honda has let us down with the VFR, my dealer did tell me 07 would be the last year for the VFR, I do belong to the CBR1000rr forum, and as I have said many people use the CBR1000RR as a solid street bike with a few mods, the best ST is the Sprint a modified 1k sports bike, and
the sprint is the best selling ST at the moment, and this year the sprint comeswith hard bags intergated, with the same MSRP as last year.

Don't get me wrong I think the VRF is a great bike, it is basically an old sports bike with a V4 which has low power to weight ratio, and
like the 600cc needs to be maintained at above 8K to pull hard.

Honda could have made a great VFR replacement by using the CBR design as a basis. V4's are also difficult to fix if they do go wrong, I3, I4 are better for most street bikes V's are for the factory, very dificlut to make a production V4 that rev's high, and can produce high power, I do not think you will see Honda making a change back to V's for production bikes for a very long time, if ever.

Also dont try and bait me with the immature references to my riding capabilities, these type of comments are not justified on any forum, and indicates the writer has some sort of hang up with diferent opions.
please be tolerant, and respectful of another position.

This is my approach, and only I ride MY bike not anyone else.
If you dont like what I say then don't read my reply.
But don't tell me what I am or am not

Take care. James.

 

Ask Freddie Spencer how his VFR handles that he uses to teach his student on at his school. They ride pillion while he drives his VFR with ONE HAND!!!

 

Was the original post a "pot stirrer" or what??

 

Two days ago it was between the VFR and the ZX-14 now it's the CBR1000, and WTF happened to the Ninja 650R??? And what kind of responses did you expect coming on to VFRworld and bashing our favorite toy .:nono:

If you don't like what I say then don't read my reply??? You have been a member less than a week and have posted half educated posts and now you are telling us what we can read

You don't even know what you are or are not, two days ago it was the ZX14 or the VFR, yesterday morning it was maybe a Ninja, last night it was the CBR 1000, my god I hope the CBR isn't your first bike ray:

 

Head shaking, yea I'm all for free speach. I'm wondering if you had a VFR? which one? and if you did when? Just what is it that gets you to think new tech I-4s has over the V4 of late. show me specs please. It is seems to me the I-4 has been around a long time. if anything the I4s are dated. V4s hard to work on? they are all a pain in the ass, it's the build silly. Have you looked at a dyno sheet on the VFRs V4? yea probably not. It's not all about raw HPs, V4 has a wide torgue curve thats pretty straight, Big reason why it does so well agaisnt bigger I-4s, again if it's such a loust design why is it the big boys are using it in Moto GP? I'm with Jev, the VFR can hold it's own with most other sportbikes, ask Pridmore or Spencer what they think. last time I checked the streets are not race tracks. and even if you ride like that on the streets, VFR still holds it own. Again it's the rider not the bike. I'm starting to think as stated he wanted to stir the pot all right. and you don't really have a clue what you're talking about as it's all coming across, as you've only touched the surface in understanding why a bike is what it is. Sheesh ST out selling the VFR Please maybe in some back country in the UK maybe. VFR is the #1 seller in Europe over the last 25 years, show me the documnet you got your information from please, you need to back yourself up James. I'm all for a educated discusion about bikes, but please and you're are aloud to have your opinon. just bring to the table in a manner that makes sence. as your coming across, well you know by now.

 

I have watched this thread from its start. I wondered, from the short first post, what it would turn into. I have seen it morph from the VFR vs a Ninja 650, to vs a ZX-14, to vs a CBR1000, which sometimes happens but it seems this might be getting a bit out of hand. Let me say that, yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. This has always been the case. I think we are all aware that the VFR is none of these other machines and all are in a class of their own. Comparing an 800cc bike to a 600cc or even a 1000cc bike is like comparing apples to oranges. They are in different classes, whether they be true"sport" or "sport-touring" bikes. Comparing ergonomics may be another matter, but it could also be comparing apples to oranges due to the different sizes, and I do not mean displacement here. Each bike has its own feel when ridden and each rider has a different style. Is the VFR under suspended, some will say it is. There is a cure for that. Is it underpowered. No. The V-4 has plenty of useable power. Is it overweight? I thihnk the concensus is that it could stand to lose a few pounds. Is the V-4 dead. Probably not since this appears to be what race teams will be going back to. Is the VFR dead? Hard to say. Yes there has been press that 07 is the last year for the VFR. I'll believe it when it happens. How many times and for how long was it rumored that the Camaro and Firebirds were done. Three or four years IIRC. And now it appears they are on their way back. Is the VFR a big seller here in the U.S.? I don't know. I don't see them on the floor here in KY, though there is one dealer nearby that has one on the floor right now, unless it sold within the last few days. It is a big seller overseas from what I hear. I do not have a way to get sales numbers, so I could be mistaken on this point. Anyway, I think I have strayed from my intended pointas wel have stated my opinion. Lets keep it civil. We are all adults here, whether we be 18, or 50+ and we all have varying degrees of experience, whether we got it riding road bikes, off-road bikes, or a combination. I will continue to watch this thread and see how it grows and which direction it takes. Discussion is great, opinions are great as well. The admins and mods here, however will not let it become something other than that as that is detrimental to the community and group as a whole.

 

A smart person compares many bikes, I have two bikes but I could not careless what anyone things about my bikes, I am mature, and relaxed about such things. I think there are so many great bikes that it is hard to compare one to another.

I was hoping to get some in depth technical, and riding discussions from the forum. About exactly how good the VFR is. I am sure that the VFR forum does have well informed people, but clearly I have not found them yet.

I think the VFR is a great bike I have said this in almost all my posts.
The vast majority of people who ride the VFR are solid sensible people

What would be more benifical is take poll of the forum members asking what they would like to change about the VFR, and send it to Honda.
If the VFR is so good then the response should be no change is required.

I aggree with an previous comment that Honda has decided not to design
high performance sport touring bikes, and that is sad.
And you do not realy think Honda is going to go on, and on making such a bike
07 is the last year, and that's it.

And so far no one has been able to clearly prove me wrong on the VFR.
What do you think S.F. could do on a CBR1000RR.
Why are thay not still running a VFR in the AMA?

Please, please respond with some solid info guy's.
is this all you have, You do not like what I say so attack the person
in any way to try an get a response so I get kicked of the forum.


I do not care what you think I am or am not, you are irrelevant if you do not have real soild information.

The VFR is old technology, and Honda does not care about the VFR, or you who ride the VFR.

Alot of you should be removed from the forum for such personnal attacks.

 

Good thing Larry " aka Busylittleshop " hasn't read this, could make for the longest thread yet..

 

I believe I pointed out that many discussions do morph into comparing one bike to one or more others. That was never disputed. And there are a number of members, I believe, that do have more than one bike. No one said anyone was not mature. It was a reminder as I know first hand how discussions can get somewhat nasty, even if they were never intended to get that way.

There is nothing wrong with this, but I guess it may have been, at least to me, to see that you wanted an in depth discussion about those very things from your first post. BTW, this is an observation not a "personal attack". Ask questions, it is encouraged. Statements can be vague and do not necessarily get the point across.

I believe someone did post a number of poll questions.

True, Honda has decided, from appearances, to not design a high performance sport tourer. But then they have CBR's for their high performance entries. And as I said, I will believe the VFR will no longer be produced when I see it, I never it would not happen. Sometimes rumor can fuel sales.

It's not about right or wrong. Overall, a CBR1000RR is still lighter than the VFR. And in racing, as you probably already know, a lighter bike can and usually is faster than a heavier bike. In regards to the AMA, i presume you speak of AMA Pro Road Racing. Again, it comes down to weight, IMO. A VFR is heavy, compared to the other machines used in racing. By comparison, and this is a stretch, look at AMA Pro MX. The AMA allowed the factories to enter larger displacement 4-stroke machines in the smaller classes (i.e. 250 4-stroke in the 125 class). The 4-strokes are heavier than thier 2 stroke competitors. The AMA did not think the 4 bangers would have much of an advantage because of the weight difference, and look where we are today, 4-strokes now dominate. They don't necesarily make more power, but they do make more useable power. But I digress.

Is the V-4 "old tech"? In the sense that it is not at the top of the development chain and that it has been around at leats since the early 80's, yeah. But the I-4 has been around longer, and it is what race teams and factories develop more because many teams use the I-4 as in their races bikes and are in their production sport bikes, so they stay at the top of the development ladder, which leads to them getting the most attention.

I realize that there were words typed that can be construed as personal attacks. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, I can only take it from my perspectve and the intent of the poster may not have been what it looks like. When reading words on a screen, it is all about perspective. The type of response like the quotes above are the reason for my original post in the thread. Please, no more responses of this type. As i have said, we are all adults here and I am sure we can respond to posts politely without stepping on peoples toes and without implied or outright name calling. It's ok to cut up and joke, I am not discouriging either nor am I discouragaging discussion. Just keep in mind that words do not have the same meaning as voice and are easier to be taken out of context.

 

Smart yes, so curiuos why did you compare a Ninja 650 to the VFR? then moved on to the ST, being a better seller? hmm need the site you found that info on. as i've read just the oppisite, then you moved on to the CBR1000, adding helibars makes it a better sport tour? than what? if you're as smart as you'd like to believe you are you should all ready know that they are all different, yet they all can in some way do the samething. whats your point. I'd like to believe that 99% of the folks here know that too, so again whats the point? or compairesion your trying to make? helibars on a CBR 1000 makes it a great sport touring bike? okay maybe to you it does. no more than one that thinks putting clip-ons on an ST makes it a better sport bike, it might for the one doing that. does this make the VFR outt dated tech wise no. all this seems to bring out is you're not happy with the VFR and you're trying to confence us we are brained washed thinking otherwise. So who's the smart one here, you, or all of us that's happy with what we have. we are aloud to vent too.

 

I agree, it does have about 65HP.

 

"My daughter thinks that her pink bike with streamers is better than my VFR"

Thanks! that warms my heart.

 

James -

Debate is good - I enjoy it. I usually can learn something in the process.

However, some of the items you have posted are just not true. They have no basis in fact.

This isn't personal, and I hope it doesn't come across as such. You are entitled to any opinion you choose to hold.

However, when you hold those opinions out in a public forum as fact, it really shouldn't come as a great surprise that others vehemently disagree.

I'm still waiting to hear why I-4s are "better for production bikes". V-4s are no more difficult to repair than I-4s. They can be built to rev as high as any similar displacement I-4. Parts for them are no more expensive than a similar I-4. And racing success? I pretty sure Nicky Hayden doesn't ride an I-4 powered machine.

I'm also still waiting to hear why the suspension on a new CBR allows it to make mid-corner corrections that would cause a VFR pilot to "fall". Please bear in mind, while heeled over in a turn, the main factors involved in any bike's ability to tighten its line quickly are rake, trail, and wheelbase. Also, please consider how suspension parts lose their effectiveness as lean angle increases. At max lean, your main suspension component is your tire's sidewall.

 

Show me one motorcycle that has been produced in the history of motorbikes that has been perfect, every model has aspects that we would like to change or enhance to suit what we think would be ideal.