If first gen are so unreliable, then why.....

....are there so many still on the road?

I was looking at the used bike postings and I counted close to 30 first gens for sale in the Toronto area. This is on only one of many used stuff sites:

Toronto (GTA) motorcycle classifieds, new / used motorcycles for sale - Kijiji

Relative to bikes of the same vintage, there seems to be tons of these bikes still in circulation. So, either a relatively higher number of these interceptors were sold than the competition, people just like the bikes so much they keep them going or they aren't that unreliable after all....

Regarding that latter possibility, I wonder how many of these bikes still in circulation have had top-end oiling kits installed, valve-train part replacement, etc. I somehow suspect that most haven't (but maybe need it). We all know the problems exist, many of us know first hand, but are we a good sampling of the VF owner community or are we drawn here while troubleshooting our common problems?

 

In the past 10 years here in NH, I have seen many VF's(500's,700/750's,1000's) and maybe ONE GPZ or GS from the early 80's. Draw your own conclusions.

 

Also take into account a lot of people barely put any miles on them so even a crappy su-sucky would still run if it's got only 5k miles on it.

 

The only thing I can add is that Honda is really good about supplying replacement parts for older bikes. The other "Big 3" aren't so good. I've mostly owned Hondas, and all of them have been very reliable.

 

Or, people know they have crap with low miles and want to offload it to you.

 

I think that the word unreliable is overblown. The 1st Gen motor has issues, but they are known and can be corrected. The top-end oiling problem can be corrected with a kit. Regular checkups and routine maintenance can help to put the valve train issue in check. On my '86 500, I have installed the top-end oiling kit for peace of mind. On the other hand, my brother also has an '86 500 with ~25K miles on it and he has done nothing to it. It is a regular commuter for him and still running strong. I have owned a number of Gen 1 bikes and have never had a problem, but yet I take exceptional care of my bikes.

 

I agree, I had a 1985 VF700F new in 85 and I thrashed it....never had the valves adjusted and when I sold it in 88 it had over 30,000 miles on it, I had a 1984 700nighthawk S that I blew the engine on at less the 7000 miles...glad it was still in warranty.

I owned a transmission shop for over 20 years and just like the Gen 1 bikes from Honda I saw so many transmisssons from Chrysler products it is hard to believe that any of their cars are still on the road but they are.

If you have a 20% failure rate and you build 10,000 of anything you will have a lot of unhappy owners but you still have 80% that are trouble free and happy.

 

Does anyone know the production numbers for the first Gen bikes...it would be interesting to know how many were made. I mean if they made a million of them and a few thousand exist well thats not good but if the made 5000 then yeah they've held up.

 

Well the best numbers I can come up with came in a service bulletin for frame drain hole drilling from March of 85.

1983 DM000001---DM008420
1984 CA model EM100001---EM100437
1984 49 State EM100001---EM103370

My 83 is DM000820. One of the first in the country. It has 59k miles on it and still has the original cams. Replaced the oil orifice at base of rear cylinders back around 85/86?? This was to get more oil to cams, another service bulletin. I've been from Key West, up into New England, up and down the east coast many times, into Montana-Wyoming and basically anywhere east of the mighty Miss-a-sip. That's WITHOUT any problems on any of my trips. It's been a great one-up sport tourer.

 

If the failure rate is real high they get very rare and allmost extinct in 10 years, I worked at a GM dealer in the 80s and a 5.7 diesels littered our shop, the 6.2 was no jewel either. You have to factor in some bikes have more miles than they show due to easy to disconnect speedo cables. And as seen with even late model bikes today some are junk with 5k miles on them.

 

My guess is that a lot of 1st Gens are now being repaired/restored and re-sold.

A guy in my area is always finding 1st Gens with issues and he's repairing them and selling them back off again.

That plus some of us are actually taking care of them and keeping them in good shape. It doesn't make 1st Gens any less reliable, it just means the majority of their owners are that much more careful and dedicated.

 

Mine had 28k miles on it and had none of the "commen" problems. When I got to this site and was warned about the problems, I didn't know what to think. At first I just thought that squirrel man didn't like me personaly or something. Now I know it isnt the case. Me and squirrel get along just fine, and then later I saw tinkerinwstuff had the exact problems described.
But I see my sold first gen ride pass my store every once in a while, sheila looks like she is still doin fine.
For the record, I did _not_ pawn my first gen off. I told the new owner of all the eventual problems and about this site before he handed over the cash. Selling something broken is a pussy move and I wouldn't do it. But he was in the same boat as I was when I bought it.... Had less then 1k in the pocket and wanted a v4.
Feel free to chime in if I am wrong bout your cams tink.... or about us getting along s-man.

Matt Has a gen 1 and rides the snot out of it, and I haven't heard problems from him yet, but I have been working mass hours and haven't had my finger on the pulse lately.
I love hearing gen 1 success stories, after all it was the bike that started it all, right? There will always be a place in my heart for that bike, it was my first "sport bike". But you would have to pry my gen 3 from my cold dead fingers.
Cheers!

 

My 84 VF700 is EM000350...one owner 7.6k miles

 

Good point. I worked on these bikes full time back in the 80's, and most of the 'known' issues only showed up on a very few. And they have 'matured' well comparing other mfgs. offerings of the same vintage.

At this stage in the game, the biggest problems are often storage or age related...dirty carbs, rusty tanks and long periods of neglected storage. I'd say a current, good running one would make a decent used bike. Problem with buying a no runner with the idea that 'I'm just gonna have to clean the carbs and it'll be good to go' is...often you later find the 'real' reason the bike sat all those years is a major problem. Unless of course you trust the seller's word.

 

I was watching some racing and I started wondering how many of the 1st Gen were "used up" on the race track.....in the mid 80s they were the bike to have.

 

Just my Honda reliability 2 cents: I picked up my 86 700 in February of 2010, it was a backyard find that had been sitting for 3 years. Had 46,000 miles on the clock. Rust everywhere, pulled the plugs and they were ridiculously rusty from being uncovered to the elements. So, impatient me, I wanted to get this thing running. Spent about 4 hours cleaning some stuff up, put a new battery in, new gas, and she fired right up. Then put new tires on, lubed the chain, checked the brakes and rode off into the sunset. Since then Ive done no maintenence, prolly should, but ive rode her for 3000 miles so far and everything is perfect. Gotta love that Honda reliability : )

 

I think the term 1st gen is being used too loosely.

The reliability issues is only with the VF's.

 

When I think of 1st Gen I think of 83-84-85, 2nd Gen starts in 86 when they became VFR......

 

Close. The 86 500 is a vf ( still the first generation interceptor )
But other then that, the above description is right.
Oh and then don't forget about the vfr1000r, I think its still considered a gen 1 but it has the gear driven cams,and not the problems we are discussing here.

 

Your talking 500cc only. The original vf was an 83 750cc. The 500 & 1000 came out in 1984. When speaking First Gen without cc specifications it is automatically associated with the 750. First Gens are considered 1983-1985. Neither the 500 or 1000 had a second gen.