Any regrets?

Ok hang on a second while I get my flame suite on and done up tight here.....OK that should be good....here we go.

I'm not real happy with the whole Vtec thing on my 6th gen. I love everything else about the bike but despite every attempt I can neither rationalize or accept how this has improved the bike. Now granted I have only put 2500 miles on the bike since I picked it up a month ago so it is still very new to me.

I have to adjust my riding style to ensure that the bike doesn't hit the transition while leaned over or when I have a passenger on the back as it is quite frightening for them. If I was on the track I would be above the transition point most of the time and it would be OK but on the street it is right in the meat of the torque curve and I hit it just milliseconds before I would normally shift. If I ride above it I can kiss my license goodbye. It just adds a distraction I think the bike would be better without.

What a dilemma! I love the look and feel, the riding position is the best but damn what a pain in the $## when the Vtec kicks in.

Sorry guys, I'm just venting. I'll take myself out back in a moment to pray for forgiveness and do some hard labor to make amends.

I hope this doesn't eject me from the sixth gen mafia!

Brad

 

I think that it was with the '06 model that they smoothed it out and lowered the engagement to 6400 RPM. I've never ridden any of the earlier 6th Gen bikes before the change was made, so I can't really compare my bike to yours, but with my '07, it is a non-issue - even when it engages while cornering. It's possible that it might be due to my riding style as I like riding a gear higher in most situations. Doesn't the PCIII on your bike help smooth it out?

 

Get a 3rd gen......

 

I have an 07 and with the power commander the vtec is a non issue as well, I have ridden Toxics 02 with the power commander and it is not nearly as smooth and he would be the first to say that but it is better than stock. I have no regrets and love my bike.

 

I have tried the bike with and without the PCIII and it doesn't feel any different as far as the Vtec transition is concerned. It does run smoother and with less surging when the PCIII is installed and especially since I richened up the bottom end a bit.

I've owned two 3rd gen bikes as well as two 5th gen bikes and I have to say that the 5th gen engine is the best so far. I will continue to tweak to see if I can find a combination that reduces the burble and hit that the Vtec system provides. I really love everything else about the bike. I'm just asking myself "why" "why" did they do this? What were the perceived benefits? In the real world, my ass dyno can't seem to quantify any improvements in low end torque or top end power vs the 5th gen plant, just a screwed up mid range.

The system works well in my car and it makes sense in that application. Good fuel economy and torque with a top end rush to merge or pass, perfect. In my opinion the 5th gen already had this in spades as well as the lovely gear whine.

All right I'm done bitching! Now I need some fuel maps, who's got some they are willing to share?

 

I made a similar post shortly after I bought my '04. I couldn't believe Honda would build a bike with so many drive-ability issues. It was a real disappointment after switching from a CBR. I got over it, but only after I made some drastic changes to mine. I replaced the ECU and wiring with '06 parts. It made a big difference, and I no longer need a power commander to make it run right.

 

That was a drastic move to solve the issue! I would love to ride one that is "fixed" to see if it is worth that level of effort and expense before I begin on this journey.

 

As far as I know I'm the only one who has done it. You should just find a stock '06+ to test ride and compare. There is a difference. The parts (used) cost less than what I sold the PC III for, plus I sold some of the '04 parts so I actually came out ahead. It took about 5 hours IIRC to swap everything over, not including the injectors which I had done before.

 

Go get a custom map made. A good tuner will get rid of the transition to the point you won't feel a surge.

Done O2 sensor elimination? PAIR valve removal? Flapper/snorkel removal? Just by doing that I was able to significantly minimize my transition with the stock and zero map on the PCIII.

 

Listen to Meat, a custom map is the only way to go, IMO. Shared and generic maps will not do the PCIII or the bike any justice. Meat has had some success without a dyno, but I think even he would tell you that a custom map is near the top of his to do list.

 

Wow. I have backed off my my VTec bashing after the 1200 showed up (it's an easier target), and the fact that I have only rode 3 differnt VFR models, Gen 3, 5 & 6. 5 is my favorite hands down, behind that is Kristin's gen 3. 6 was cool but the VTec transision put me off. My first V4 was my 82 magna. The one thing I loved about it was the power accross all RPM. The gen 6 felt more like an inline 4 to me, I was waiting for it to spool up and get power. When it did it was awesome, but why get a V4 if I have to wait for it to grow some balls? If you guys with the VTec 800's have some tricks up your sleeve that gives it the same feel that us fans of the Honda V4's in the Magna, Saber & Interceptors of legand gave us... Go For It. Maybe some one will take the hint and Honda will give us what we have been lacking since gen5. If I want a detuned, dog of a bike I'd buy cruisers. A bikes power should be ruled by the redline of the motor & my wrist, not a microchip.

 

I rode toxics bike too, and it felt natural too me. I loved it. Balance etc etc.Then the v kicked in and started screaming at me and I immediatly pulled over thinking that I hurt my buddies bike!!!
It really did scare the piss out of me. Toe was with me, and we switched bikes, and his 07 was much smoother.
If I did it all over again, knowing _now_ where the transition happens, I would know how to adjust. After knowing where the v kicks in, I dont think I would have an issue with it. Toxics bike is still my almost favourite ever, only 2nd to my gen 3. I think it was the handling+the powerband. It fit me perfect. The v issue only bugged me because I wasn't prepared for it.
However, I only rode it around for a few miles, so I am speaking from a test ride perspective.
Also, just chiming in because I know what it is like to have the v kick in when you dont know its going to and you haven't commited to speeding up or slowing down. It can be an ordeal allright. Scare the rider and the passenger I bet.
I would be torn about which gen to add to my stable if I was in the market.. Gen 5 seems to have alot to offer. Gear drive and FI And I think second prettiest too. Gen 6 is so advanced with the technology, kind of hard not to want one.
Gen 2 is a full on race bike if set up right. Gen 1 is the classic you just want to have for bragging rights. Gen 4? I really dont know cause I aint rode one. From what I understand its the same as the gen 3 except for cosmetic changes? Guess I am gonna have to ride a gen 4 sometime. I know someone who gots one, so it may happen someday. Gen 7? Don't know, but I dont plan on leaving this forum anytime soon, so maybe that will happen at some time too.
But, I digress. The thead was titled "any regrets?"
I have no regrets of the two interceptors I have owned, or the 5 I have ridden. Good solid bikes. Take the good with the bad and adapt

 

Motorcycles are transitory instruments that facilitate a most enjoyable way to experience life and mountain passes. If you spend too much energy thinking about V-Tech you become servant to the instrument rather than it to you. Ride, eat, sleep, repeat.

 

Well here is my issue. I have only had my 07 for a month now, but my problem isn't the Vtec, to me that feels about like any 2 stroke dirt bike I grew up racing, so that's no big deal .. BUT... maybe it's just because my bike is new, but the very first thing I noticed when I left the dealer 700 miles ago was the throttle. For lack of a better word it seems to be very "on and off". there is no real smooth transition, you are either accelerating or decelerating it seems. It's like there is no buffer zone. I just figured it was me getting used to it, but I can't remember any other bike I have had (1st gen interceptor's, cbr 1000's, katana's) doing that. I haven't even taken my wife for a ride yet because, to me, it feels way too jerky for 2 up.

Again, it may just be me, or maybe it's the FI, but I installed a throttle lock the other day and very small throttle adjustments make a major change in the bike's momentum. It makes me think about bumping helmets riding 2 up.

Anybody else notice / have this issue, and if so, it is just me needing to get used to a FI bike?

 

I really don't understand the criticism of the VTEC. I have an '06, the VTEC kicks in at 6700 rpm, and half the time I don't even notice it. When I do, I like it - for me, the extra boost is a fun thing.

I find that extra kick fairly subtle though. Maybe I just don't have the riding experience some of you have to understand what the big deal is. I only rev it to that point when I'm in a straight line anyway...I guess that level of revving in a curve is for the more experienced....

 

OK here we go again... I have a unique perspective on this subject since I owned a 2005 VFR up until February of this year and now have a 2007; both of which have the VTEC. The 05' engaged the VTEC at 7000 rpm while the 07' charges ahead at 6400. Both bike were mostly stock (no PC III just exhaust and an air filter). If you ride smoothly and engage the throttle correctly then the VTEC is a non-issue on either bike. The transition shouldn't scare you since you know it's there. Like any bike, there is always a learning curve.

I never understand why people are worried about engaging the VTEC in a corner! If you are smoothly rolling on the gas as you exit the apex of the curve (as is taught in countless riding schools, books and videos) then the transition into the VTEC should be a fun kick in the pants as you exit the corner. It will not upset the bike in any way if done properly. Training goes a long way into controlling ANY bike VTEC or not. Stop blaming the bike! 80% of all issues with a bike are operator related due to lack of training, ability and just plain recklessness (stunting). If you have ridden any distance on this bike and still can't "understand it" then you might want to think of hanging up the helmet and trying another mode of transportation.

No regrets on either bike! 6th Gens rule! (Though I do like the smoothness of the 07' better but SILVER is the best color!!!)

 

I know what you mean. I wondered if it was the chain slack after I was used to riding shafties. Now I just think it's more demanding in terms of throttle control. It overreacts when I chop throttle so I avoid doing that. I approach turns by reducing throttle such that I don't get chain slap or the load shifting from back to front to back again. If I do have to chop and go back on I try to pay extra attention to smooth the initial reengagement. I think it has made me a better rider because I'm less disruptive to the bike's inherent stability.

 

Ok, as you can see in my sig I've owned two 6th Gen VFRs: '02 & '07.

When I had the '02 the VTEC surprised me a bit the first time (even though I knew it was there) because I had never ridden the bike. Angela was a blast & I LOVED that rush! My current '07 has a similar rush but it's not as intense IMHO.


But I do think the VTEC is a good thing and makes the bike more rideable. Please follow my reasoning for a bit.

When you're on a track or blasting in the twisties you're likely keeping the bike in the powerband of 8k - 10k for most of it. You've got power everywhere and it sounds awesome! There's no transition to worry about & you're fuel is going bye-bye...but that's the whole point of the twisties: FUN!

But normally you're riding on the street where these demands are not needed. Here's where the 2 valve shines. You have smooth quiet (in stock pipes) power and gas milage, and you don't sound like a Moto GP/Indy Car parade. And it's appreciated by the neighbors.


When I commute (as I did yesterday) I stay below 6k rpms for the most part...but I stay near that mark in case I need that instant power. When I was riding with Punisher on Sunday I stayed in & around that mark (keep in mind I didn't have my first service yet) but when it was time to pass traffic I went straight to the VTEC and passed with ease.

The VFR is (IMHO) the best all-around bike for just these reasons...and the VTEC illustrates that beautifully. You've got two bikes in one depending on your needs & situation. It takes some time to get used to but I feel it's worth the slight effort required.


/opinion

 

1) I've never felt that the VTEC engagement scared me or upset the bike's handling in an unsafe way, I just find it annoying and unnecessary.

2) 80% of all issues with the bike may be operator related, but those same operators don't have those issues with any other bike. I guess you could say the VFR VTEC demands a more skilled rider, but that is not necessarily a good thing. If nothing else, it's bad for sales. Most riders are only average by definition and don't want to be bothered learning how to ride again. It may be stupid and lazy, but it's the truth.

3) I don't blame the bike, I blame Honda for not making the bike better.

4) Seat time will remedy most of these issues, I have learned techniques to eliminate any remaining issues I have with the bike, but I don't feel like it's made me a better rider. I could be wrong.

I appreciate the VTEC concept, as far as I know it was intended to lower emissions and noise at low RPM, all good. It's been proven that the harshness of the transition can be eliminated by tuning, and Honda's other bikes don't have all the lean surging or snatchy throttle problems either. I just feel that if Honda had spent a little more time tuning it would be a better bike, and why wouldn't they build the best possible bike? Possibly then we wouldn't be having this discussion and they wouldn't be left with unsold bikes 3 years later. I love my VFR, I think it's one of the best all-rounders and when people ask about it I act like it's the best bike in the world, but I really feel it could have been so much better, and I'm not letting Honda off the hook for it.

 

I do believe VTEC are mostly designed to make economical riding possible, or not
going 360km per tank on a cruise, if you need it, is great.
But obviously it doesn't have the super crazy 4x power torque, that some people NEED to survive at every inches of road...in the streets?

low noise can be great too, when you come home at midnight and feel like neighbors deserve to sleep.

I have no regrets on the VTEc VFR, it was designied for ME lol

those who cares about making noise, full torque all the time, visiting gaz station often, should look into else than Vtec.
There are sooo many bikes models out there!