New Owner of 4th Gen VFR. Bike won't start up anymore. Help Appreciated!

Hi Guys,

Just picked up a rather pristine 96' VFR with only 6.5k Miles on it a few days ago:

The bike ran fine the first 2-3 days. However, yesterday I took the bike down town, maybe 1 mile away. I pulled over, hit the engine kill switch, made a 5 minute phone call. After I put my phone away and attempted to start the engine, the starter was very weak sounding and died down real quick. I tried again, even less, not enough to get the engine going. I hit it once more and it was practically dead, with no power. I then parked my bike and let it sit for a few minutes and tried to start it again. I did this, and the battery seemed to have more juice and was able to get the starter to respond a bit more, but still not enough and it quickly died down.

I popped my battery out and took over it autozone. I told them to charge it up, they charged it for about an hour. Put it back in my back and it started up fine. I rode up, a short 10 minute ride and turned my bike off again. Out of curiosity I tried to start it again and low and behold it had no power to run the starter and start the engine. Put it away for the night, frustrated as hell.


This morning I went down to my bike and tried to start it up. It had a lot more juice, but being that the engine was cold, I choked it and tried to start. The starter attempted a few times but then after several tries it died down AGAIN before even being able to start the bike up cold. At this point, I took my battery out and went to get it tested at an auto parts shop down the road. They ran a test with results showing it was somewhere around 10.6v and 30 coa and they said that it seemed low and needed a full charge. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I would greatly appreciate any help, all I want to do is get my bike up and running for the season, I'm dying to enjoy it.

The previous owner said the battery was only 1.5 months old. It is an enclosed Yuasa YTX12-bs.

Do I simply need a new battery? Is my charging system shot? I don't get why my bike was running perfectly fine for me and now I'm having this issue out of no where.

Let me know what you all think!

Thanks

 

Sounds like your R/R (regulator/rectifier) died. My '97 did the exact same thing right after I bought it. Do a search here for the fixes and contact Wire My Bike for his replacement harness-money well spent.

 

+1 on the R/R. Take a look at this link 1990-1996 VFR PDF Manual for a PDF manual. It will give you a procedure to check not only the R/R but the wiring too. I just went through the same thing. I ordered a new aftermarket R/R from Dennis Kirk. It was the Rick's Motorsports model. Good luck.

 

+3 on the R/R. By the way, how long lad the bike been idle before you bought it? Did the PO ride it everyday or occasionally?

 

Probably need a new battery, but run tests on charging system b4 replacing anything.

Many times there are burned/melted wires causing a charging problem.....so inspect connector plugs between stator and R/R and on top of starter relay.

 

Since you now know what to check welcome to the forums and congrats on your new toy!! Don't let the minor setback turn you off, the VFR is an otherwise solid machine that can last you for many many more miles. When you get a chance please post a few pics of this "alleged" bike.

Rollin

 

Definetely test the system first as I had a similar problem just recently on my 94. Dizzy here on the forums was a brilliant help with what to look for and mine ended up being an overheating armature in the starter motor. Mine would start fine when cold then next to nothing once hot.

Everything tested well and once I changed the starter motor the bike has been perfect since.

PM dizzy if you get stuck, he knows the electrical side of things very well.

 

Thanks sruss67...it's better to verify than assume.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. After reading a bit, I am figuring it to be the R/R, but I haven't confirmed that yet. What is the easiest way to access the R/R and the electrical wires to check it all out? What needs to be taken off exactly?

I don't think it is the starter motor, as the bike wouldn't even start up cold the last time I checked, it tried to but then it got to the point where the battery just didn't have enough left to get it started up cold, so something had to be draining the battery. I've gone ahead and ordered a new R/R, just because if it isn't the R/R, it seems like a good idea to have a spare one around anyhow.

The PO said he rode it almost daily for the past 1-2 months or so, but before that it had been sitting, couldn't have been ridden all too much for having 6,500 miles for a 16 year old bike though.

I'll be sure to put up some pics soon. Going to get to work and take off the fairings to try to figure out the issue once this rain stops over here.

 

I don't think sruss67 is suggesting you have the same problem he did with his bike. The point is, until you test you don't know. Do you have a DC voltmeter?

 

I don't yet, but I intend to pick one up from RadioShack so I can hopefully narrow down the issue and see if it is in fact the R/R.

If it ends up being a fried connector, are those fairly easy to replace?

 

:biggrin:

Dead right there and moton00b all I was suggesting is check things out.
Dizzy (and others) suggested I get myself a voltmeter and initially I thought there was no way for me to understand the electrics of these bikes.
However the suggestions made were clear and simple to understand and with patience as well as the folks here I had my answer fairly quickly.
Another thing I realised is that there are no dumb questions, if you do not know yourself just ask. Someone here will help.
I too doubted my R/R, battery and wiring and my ability but it all worked out great
Get that voltmeter and ask the guys what to check.

Best of luck and hope you get her going soon:biggrin:

 

Check my initial message in mechanics garage, electrical issue 4th gen. First post was 12/3/2010
The things you need to check are all here under dizzy's replys to my questions.
http:/vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/29327-electrical-issue-4th-gen.html#post245576

 

Yea do that...charging systems are usually easy to troubleshoot.

There's two schools of thought. Some like to 'hardwire', or eliminate the connector completely and just solder the wires together. This probably makes a better connection but then you can't conveniently unplug for replacement or testing...so if you're going to do it this way, do all you can to make sure the component is good BEFORE you fix the wires. Some like to find a replacement connector and solder that in.

There's two connectors you should check. The three pin yellow stator coupler and the five (sometimes seven) pin R/R coupler. If you have to repair one of these, you're gonna need a good quality higher wattage soldering gun. The wires are pretty thick gauge and one of those little 'pencil' ones usually won't cut it. Of course you'll have to have basic soldering skills. The main problem I've come across is wires that have been overheated don't solder worth a damn. That is, sometimes you have to get the wires hotter than you may want to allow the solder to be 'sucked' in...sometimes that's hot enough to begin to melt the insulation around the wire. It's really best to cut the wires back far enough to find some 'bright' copper and splice a similar gauge or larger length of wire in, rather than 'fight' soldering wires that have lost their 'temper'.

 

Ok,

So I got the volt meter today, took the rear fairing off and was able to get some DC volt readings. I hooked up the meter to the red/white wire output on the stator connector, unattached and put the fully charged battery in. Grounded it and it read 12.8v. I then plugged in the connector and started the bike, and was able to read the output DC volt from the stator to the battery while I revved. And during idle it read about 12.2, as i revved up to about 4-5k the voltmeter read up to 12.8-13.0. I know these values should be higher, so does this mean my battery is funked up or that my R/R isn't doing the proper job and supplying a strong enough charge? Also, none of the connectors were fried or anything, the wires looked fine to me.

At this point I feel it could either be the battery or the R/R, however i'm not sure if there is such thing as a partially or weak functioning R/R or if they simply just fail completely. In my case it seems to be working, but weak, not really giving the battery enough juice as it should be getting more recharged when the bike is running... Anyone know what it may be at this point?

Thanks

 

Red/white wire is not stator connector. You didn't say if you charged the battery. 12.8 VDC at rest sounds like you did. You may not be charging. Start simple...do this and post your results. Read your DCV directly at the battery...hit your starter button and note the DCV while your starter is spinning...warm up the bike a little, maybe even run it around the block once or twice, put the voltmeter back on directly at the battery run up to 5K RPM a few seconds and note that.

 

Sounds like a failing R/R to me. You should be near 14 volts while running, probably higher. A weak battery shouldn't pull the charging voltage down that low, especially since you could start the bike from the battery.

I replaced the R/R in my 4th gen a few weeks ago. When it went bad a couple of diode tests were inconsistent; this would be an additional way of verifying the R/R is bad. In particular, the diode tests from each of the three stator pins to the ground and power pins should be consistent (similar readings in the case of each pin), and maybe a shunt diode between power and ground. IIRC in my case one of the stator pin diode tests was much different than the other two.

It's recommended that you get a beefier R/R when you replace it (don't just replace it with a stock R/R). It was also recommended to me to either relocate it to somewhere with additional airflow or at least mount a fan on it.

 

I meant the red/white wire on the R/R connector, not the stator and yes, the battery tested with had just been fully charged.

I got my new R/R in the mail today, it is definitely beefier with fins on it to direct air flow. Should I just pop it on and see if I get better results on the test?

To clarify what I did before:

I did test the battery via the red/white on the R/R connector. I unplugged the R/R connector and just tested via the red/white to the battery, with the ground on the other pole of the battery. This showed around 12.2v. I tested directly on the battery with the voltmeter on + and - of the battery, and it read 12.8v. Then when I plugged in the R/R and tried it with the bike running, around idle it showed 12.1-12.2 and when revving it went up to around 12.8-13.0 MAX.

 

Sure...go for it. It'll probably fix it. When I do charging systems I usually charge and check battery. The idea of watching the DCV while your starter is turning is to see how much voltage drop is going on. If the voltage drops to much less than 10VDC or so...it indicates a weak battery or other type problem. Then I usually unplug and check the stator windings for shorting to ground and sometimes ACV output. If all that stuff comes out good...then it's time to for an R/R.

 

+4 on the RR, go to Ricks pick one up. I didn't read all the details here, more than likely I hope you did this, but you can usually tell right off the bat if it's a RR by doing the voltmeter to the battery posts, if it does jump up when you give it a bit of Rs, yep RR, pretty common with these. it should jump up to 14v right off then settle down around 13v something. Also, double check the plug that goes into the RR for heat stress those connections are small and it doesn't take much to foul things up in the way of any corrosion, which will take out another RR pronto, LOL ask how I know, once I fixed that, never looked back, problem gone. there is a factory plug available through another model, believe it to be the Pacific Coast used the same one. Now who was that here that gave me that lead?