Do I need to rebuild my clutch?

Hi Folks,

Hi Folks,

I'm a newbie to this site. I have an issue with the clutch on my 2002 Interceptor that maybe someone here can help me with.

I may have done a dumb thing when I took my bike out of winter storage last month. I changed the oil with Mobil One which may have had molybdenum. I'm not sure because I tossed the containers. Anyway, I started my bike today and when I put it in gear and let out the clutch - nothing. The bike never moved. I went to my local Honda shop and the guy behind the counter told me I probably trashed my clutch putting "car" oil in my bike. He sold me some Honda oil and said to re - change, and I might get my clutch back. I did it, but it didn't work.

Has anyone ever had this happen? Is my clutch kaput? Will I have to replace the plates? Is there maybe some way to clean the plates without having to remove the clutch (I ask because I can see the damned thing through the oil filler hole, and maybe there's some way to spray a cleaner on it)?

Any suggestions are appreciated

 

It's probably not the clutch itself. It's probably the clutch slave cylinder. Does the lever go limp in your hand? How does the fluid level look in the sight glass?

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

Mobil One will not cause a working clutch to suddenly start slipping.....

 

I ran the original Honda HP4 oil (moly additive) in my first ST1100 for years before it was reported by Honda as a 'no-no'. Never had a problem. I agree it's unlikely anything that drastic would happen that fast.

 

Car oil? Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life.. Dont go back to that dealer...They morons if that's how they are training their staff.

Check the oil level, take the clutch out recoat everything with oil...additives can destoy your clutch plates allowing the material to separate from the plate...unlike a car the tranny and engine use the same oil in a bike.

You could try draining everything and putting in new oil...Thats the easiest...If that doesnt work...Look at the clutch plates and see if they are f'd up from Moly...should be able to tell easy...thats why I would take it apart

Keep us posted

 

Like kc-10 said, check your clutch fluid in the master cylinder.

 

I don't see how this could be caused by the master or slave cylinders unless they are stuck fully compressed. If you have the bike on the center stand and put it into first gear not running and don't touch the clutch at all, it should lock up the back wheel. If you can turn the back wheel by hand and you are confident that the transmission is truly in first gear, then your clutch is done, and not just a little done but really smoked! You need to pull the clutch cover off and inspect the plates. When the system fails, if fails engaged not disengaged so something is up in the clutch itself from the sounds of things.

The strange thing is that this doesn't just happen over night. It takes time and you usually notice the clutch start to slip a bit under hard acceleration and then it get worse and worse till it is difficult to get her rolling and then finally it is done. Most of us would detect the slippage and change the sucker as it is hurting performance as well as overheating the oil and depositing debris in the oil all at the same time. Did you notice any degradation prior to the complete failure?

 

I concur wth jethro...

 

Another +1 for Jethro here.

Daveyto, modern "car" oils are in fact different from oils designed specifically for motorcycle oil. Most motorcycle oils are designed with wet clutches in mind so they don't have some of the detergents/additives in them that regular automotive oils do. Some of these detergents/additives play hell with the clutch materiel, and the friction surfaces NOT allowing them to grab properly and causing a "false" clutch slipping condition. This will eventually lead to an overheated clutch, burned out clutch, and a crankcase full o clutch bits. Motorcycle oil is definately more expensive than regular ol oil that you can dump in just about anything. But I think it's worth it to extend clutch life and prevent as much clutch bits floating round in my crankcase between oil changes. Just as an aside, I love me some Mobil One and use it in my cage too.

I'm really not trying to start another "oil thread" fight here guys, there's allready too many of them if Viffersaurus wants to read em.

 

Hi guys,

It's fixed Apparently something was stuck in the slave cylinder as some of you suggested. I decided to start there. I put the bike on the centerstand and found my 12mm wrench for the slave banjo bolt.

As soon as I turned the bolt fluid squirted out and I heard a tiny click. I was doubtful it meant anything but to be sure I tightend it back up and put my bike in first. I held my breath and tried to turn my back wheel. Presto, I had my clutch back. The wheel wouldn't budge. I worked the clutch a number of times to see if it would stick again and it didn't.

I flushed all the brake fluid and refilled it. I know I probably need to go ahead and rebuild the slave (I'll probably do it next weekend), but for now I'm just thankful the clutch is ok.

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

 

That is good news!

I don't know if I've ever seen or heard of a slave cylinder sticking like that but there is a first time for everything and I'm sure someone here has experienced it. Almost like it over travelled and got hung up on something. How many miles are on the bike?

I'm going to think out loud here for a second so let me know if this makes any sense. I'm trying to think of a way mechanically that this could happen.

The system holds pressure when you pull the lever and cause the piston in the master cylinder to push fluid towards the slave cylinder. When you release the lever, the piston in the master cylinder returns to its resting position which allows the slave piston to return to normal (it is assisted by the spring pressure exerted by the clutch pack.). When the master cylinder piston is at rest it leaves open a vent port to allow pressure in the system to vent back to the reservoir. If this didn't happen, pressure could remain built up in the system. I wonder if the master cylinder piston was sticking? When you cracked the banjo bolt there shouldn't have been pressure built up there unless you had the lever squeezed. Hmmmm this is a good one.

I'm leaning towards a master cylinder issue rather that a slave at this point but I'm just thinking out loud.

What does everyone else think?

 

Yeah it's a puzzler. The fluid was long overdue for a flush, and as I was flushing I noticed that there was a deposit of yellow goo in the bottom of the master cylinder resevior. I cleaned it up, but I figured there is probably some of the same goo in the slave cylinder. Also, something I didn't add in my original post was that the bike had just come out of winter storage. And the first time I pulled in the clutch lever it felt abnormally hard and near the end of the travel I felt an extra hard spot which seemed to break loose after a number of repeat squeezes.

It seems there may have been a clog somewhere in the slave, maybe a yellow goo clog. Maybe it created a situation where the slave piston could not return completely and this prevented the clutch from disengaging fully. Maybe the clog was in the fitting, and when I broke it loose the clog was pushed out as the clutch returned to it's normal resting place. I dunno, maybe I'm totally off on that

 

Actually Jethro, maybe you're right about the master cylinder being the cause because as you said why would would the fluid squirt out unless there was pressure in the system as if someone was holding the clutch lever? Maybe there was a clog in the master and loosening the banjo relieved the pressure and pushed the clog free. I might have gotten the same result if I had loosened the bleeder instead of the banjo.

 

Sounds like crud as a result of WAAAAAAAY too old hydraulic fluid being in there and breaking down/absorbing moisture. I would reccomend rebuilding both the clutch slave cylinder and the master cylinder if you're gonna do it. Also, try to flush out/blow out the line while both cylinders are off, hopefully you can expell all the old fluid and possible goo buildup and be good to go again. Just make sure to flush/change them fluids more regularly and you should be good!!

 

It's surprising how crappy the brake and clutch fluid can get in what is supposed to be a closed system. I've seen major improvements in braking and feedback with just a good ole flush and fill. It's not even that tough a job with a vacuum bleeder like a mityvac so it is a wonder why we don't seem to get around to it. I'm as guilty as the next guy of listening to that little voice that says, "it's working fine, she'll be ok".

The clutch tends to see even less maintenance than the brakes so it make some sense that this is where you are experiencing issues. Hopefully the goo and moisture haven't done too much damage in there.

We won't even mention the fork oil.....

Oh well, sun is up, clutches out in five!

 

+1 This is make more sence

 

Than ks for the explanation but I have been using "car" oils in every bike I have owned since 1986. Without any issues. However I see your point...Some guys like to run Motul, but I always saw it as overkill and too expensive.