sound clips of my bike's bad start - what do you hear?

I will be a little more carefull from now on.
BTW TOE CUTTER is not just a "passer by ,anybody, he is an experienced mechanic and I would value his opinion.

My statement was about asking people that don't know anything.

 

OK I put all new spark plugs in, and had a buddy come over to help me. Disclaimer: he wasn't no passerby he's worked on Indian motorcycles for decades, and knows motorcycles better than I know the back of my hand. It's funny, though, as we were working he kept calling my '86 bike "modern" hehehe, I guess it's all a matter of perspective! So anyway I'd pulled the old plugs and installed the new ones before he arrived, so we could focus on getting her running. As soon as we got it sputtering, he said "It's only firing on two cylinders." Like a one legged man at a butt-kicking contest, it was having trouble keeping itself going. So he pulled the caps off the plugs to check for spark, and whammo: the front-left wire pulled loose from the cap, revealing a severed wire. So... that needs replaced... Funny story, he was sticking my screwdriver into the plug wire caps and holding the shaft against the bike's frame as I hit the starter to check for spark. The first one (the severed wire, we didn't need the screwdriver to test that one) sparked really well, then the other 3 weren't giving any sparks at all. This completely stumped us. This was impossible. It took us about 15 minutes to think of the kill switch, and lo, it was flipped up!!! After checking the first one, one of us must have bumped the kill switch. So I clicked it back to run, and we tested the other 3 again and got some weak sparks from the 3 wires that weren't severed. He said the sparks should be good enough for ignition, but they are weak. These wires/cables whatever, going from the coils to the plugs are original, and VERY stiff. When I pulled them out of the way to pull the plugs I noticed big cracks & tears in the insulation, and the front left one (the one which snapped entirely) was missing the lower rim of rubber, leaving the porcelain plug visible. I know this was bad, and my buddy also said even just old, stiff wire insulation increases the resistance. So I'm looking now at replacing the spark plug wires, including the rubber boots or caps. I'm pretty sure the coils are just fine. I found some ignition wires on ebay that come with the boots and the coils as well, but these are also from 1986. Looking for NEW wires, can I just buy bulk spark plug wire from an auto store? Any tips? What gauge wire? Suppressed? Where can I find the boots that clip on to the plug? Thanks again, and HOPEFULLY this was why it was having trouble firing up.

 

Good. That's progress. So first let me clarify that I don't know your specific bike at all; never had one never worked on one. Plug wire you can buy bulk from an auto parts store and you should look up online at the NGK catalog for the boots. Here's the thing: Modern laws require radio frequency supression, this comes in many ways, sometimes the wire, the boot or the plug itself, sometimes together. the first thing is; will the wires come out of the coils? I would think they screw in onto an imbedded pin. Then what is the OD of the wire and what is the core? I would think in 1986 they still used solid core,(stiff stranded wire) if it is then that's what you ask for, don't use carbon core if that isn't what's there. Solid core is available from Acell if no where else. Next determine if there is a resistor in the plastic boot, I bet there is, I bet there's a spec for it, I bet you could measure that spec with an Ohm meter. If they spec out and are not damaged or burned you could re-use them. If you need new ones check the NGK book, if you find one with them, the auto parts stores can order them in, otherwise go to Honda, unless you've got a parts bike around. If you are SUPER CAREFUL you can still check spark further. You'd need 4 alligator test leads (good ones). Remove the offending plug wires and reinstall coils on bike, ground out the high tension side of the coils with the alligator leads, this will protect the coils from voltage spikes by sending all the spark right to ground. One at a time unground an alligator clip and attach it to your favorite insulated handled screw driver and hold it a few MM away from ground and crank; spark should be blue and snappy. If it's still weak then go through the coil tests. This will make you feel better that you've really got something while you are jumping through hoops trying to find the plug wire stuff. If however unlikely you need to order coils they would probably come with wires on them already. Keep us posted and for the irony of it post a sound clip when it purrs like a kitten.

Press on!

 

Wow thank you for that info! I've taken notes, and plan to head for the closest NAPA, Autozone, and everywhere I can fin what I need... I'll post about the progress when it comes.

 

I'd do the tests first, you can always spend money later. I'd hate to see you buy a bunch of stuff and not have it work out.

 

I understand, but unless I get the same buddy to help me (I'm sure he's got all the meters and tools needed to test the coils), I won't be able to do those tests. He's REALLY busy, but yeah I'll ask him if he could help me do that. I don't like climbing on roofs, and I don't like fixing electric stuff. If I can get someone to help me I'm happy!

The way I see it, though, the wires do need to be replaced anyway with all the damage to the plastic. To answer some of your questions about the wires: yes they do disconnect form the coils, with a needle setup like you described. I'm pretty sure the wire's 7mm (but will measure to make sure before I go shopping), solid core, and haven't even taken the boot apart (yet!) so I don't know if there is a resistor in there or not, but I'd prefer buy all new parts if I can find them available.

Thanks again!

 

The resisters are 5 ohm but they are only sold with the boots from NGK. Just keep your resisters.
NGK sells the complete kits.

The resister and spring are in the spark plug end of the wire.

GO to this thread:
http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/29212-making-new-plug-wires.html

 

the complete kits I see on NGK's website don't look like solid core to me... I've read somewhere on this forum that someone got some braided center wire that didn't work. If I need solid core copper wire, will the complete kit from NGK work?

 

Post a link to the product, and to be clear, the wire is not copper, it's steel or on a good day, stainless steel.

 

NGK Wire Sets
is all the info I could find on their website. I can't find out where to go to pick out a set made for my '86 vf500f, but they say each set is "customized" to each bike, as far as the plug style and wire length... I'll call their customer service tomorrow I guess.

 

Here you go. For just wire by the foot.
Spark Plug Wire 7mm !!! Buy Per Foot !!! ULCP# 135-004

 

Thanks for the source but it seems they're out of stock for the time being... I did some emailing to NGK and got some answers. Told them what bike I have, and that I want to replace with new everything between the coils and the plugs. They pointed me in the direction of their racing products, and everything else is not solid core. There is ONLY one choice for straight resistor covers (not 90 degree angle or such) that is for the terminal stud:

NGK.com - Cross Reference Search Results

and the ONLY reason I haven't already clicked BUY NOW is that the longest these wires (with resistor cover included) come is 50cm, or just under 20 inches. I'm sitting at work on lunch break now, nowhere near my bike to measure, but am i right in thinking that is not nearly long enough, at least for the front two plugs? The ONLY way I could get a 100cm, just under 40 inches, length of wire is by getting a 90 degree angled resistor cover:

http://ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=cr5

Will these even fit on my '86 vf500f?!

If I were to drop the NGK idea and go get bulk wire from Summit Racing or Napa, where can I find new resistor covers that will work?

Once again, thank you all for the advice!

Edit: after emailing NGK again, asking about the length, they say according to their records, my 1986 vf500f should be fine with the 50cm length. Am I wrong in thinking that is too short to reach? I wish I worked at home, I could go measure the current length myself right now! So if that's the case, I think I should go with the "CR1" item. By the way, the customer service for NGK (info@ngksparkplugs.com), is GREAT! Quick response (8 emails between him and me this morning), and always had a detailed answer for my questions. I'm impressed.