Should I buy a 2002 VFR800 with Power commander and Blue Flame exhaust ?

It is possible that he had nothing to do with the theft but the circumstances behind the incident and the way he has been avoiding me really makes me wonder. He also voluntarily made an offer to give me some cash to make things right just after it happened but hadn't heard back from him since before Thanksgiving. It's a shame because it really makes me wary to invite anyone from this forum to come to my house since I really don't know them all that well other than what I've learned in the few hours riding with them.

Rollin

 

Congrats! Great looking pair of bikes

As far as the tuning + exhaust goes, you can put on just about any of the aftermarket exhausts on the VFR (or gut the stock pipes) without worrying about the tune. The 6th gen VFR has a catalytic converter in the headers which will not be moved or replaced with just about any of the exhausts on the market. Since the cat is the real bottle neck in the exhaust, anything you mod post-cat is more or less negligible as far as tuning is concerned. However if you guy the cat or replace the headers, then you'll be looking at a new tune for the machine.

 

All respect to Elwray, but I disagree, he's correct in what he's saying, but the problem is that the ECU's mapping pretty much sucks as stock. Which means it's always going to suck, no matter what mods you do or what adjustments it makes.. At least I think so.

If you pipe it, definately get a Power Commander. I would get a PCIII or PCV even if I didn't install an exhaust. You're probably noticing by now that the 6 gens didn't come with the greatest stock mapping to begin with (off idle jumpiness, slightly harsh VTEC, etc.) and a PC will correct that. You don't have to get a custom tune as Dynojet has finally come out with a downloadable map for 2 Bros. However, every VFR is differant, making a custom map/tune much more desirable than a generic map. Roughly $250 (less then a good set of tires) will get you on a dyno and get a map built just for your bike. No more funky parking lot speeds, no more HP/torque drops at VTEC. Basically a differant bike when the tuner is done and worth every penny, especially when you consider that the tune will be with you for as long as you own the bike.

Yes, taking a tooth off of the stock 16 tooth front sprocket changes the gear ratio. It will basically shift some much needed power to the mids and lower mids while sacrificing some top speed. I tend to believe that this mod adds the most bang for the buck at $20. You can also add two or more teeth to the rear sprocket (this will cost a little more) to get varying degrees of the same affect. A longer chain may be needed depending on how many teeth you add. The more teeth you add to the rear the more torque and power you're going to feel low mid and mid, all the while loosing more and more top speed the more teeth you add. I chose to go -1 front because I like that ratio, but you can't take any more teeth from the front than 1 (chain kinks). You can add as many teeth as you like to the rear, stunt bike if you like. For comparision reasons; going -1 front is the equivilant of doing +2.8 rear.

 

Oh yeah also wanted to give my two bits about the exhaust. My bike came with a Micron exhaust -- I believe they aren't produced anymore though. The sound was incredible, but I didn't care much for the look of the pipes. Ended up selling them and picking up a set of stock pipes for $30 and gutting the baffles in them. I like the look of the stock pipes better, and the sound is very nice -- though not as nice as the Micron. But with the money I got for the Microns, I basically paid for all the work that I ended up putting into the VFR (chain, sprockets, thermostat, fluids, tires, etc).

I haven't heard a "bad" sounding set of pipes on the VFR. I'd say purchasing based on cosmetics is fine.... also keep in mind that the stock exhaust is quite heavy; aftermarkets tend to be considerably lighter.

 

I was just commenting on how slip on pipes will affect the tune -- not the quality of the tune to start with. I don't have a PC but am thinking of adding one for those reasons you listed. But what I'm saying is, it isn't damaging to the bike to run the stock tune with aftermarket pipes :thumb:

 

I give you all the guns Wray. I just wanted to make sure that Doug was clear.

Not that you were unclear, Doug.

 

All good havcar

Alright well, bottom line to Doug -- get SOME kind of pipe on there the engine sounds great :thumb:

 

I hear you rollin... I trust to a fault myself... I prefer it that way... Too much skepticism is rampant in business and this country as a whole. You would hope "TRUE BIKERS" would have a high level of mutual respect for each other, especially when it comes to helping someone out. We all won't get along, but if someone offers to help and do something then he should assume some responsibility. But really, what can you do.

I hope this one experience doesn't sour you too bad. I would just suggest being a little more cautious as to who you turn your valuable bike and parts over to. I had a friend deal with a shop, they went bankrupt. the IRS came in and seized all assets and it took him over a year to get his stuff back and at that he lost parts as well - He was lucky to get his bike, but lsot a whole season of riding.. so again "shit happens". If you care for my suggestion, since it's been since Thanksgiving almost 5 months, contact him one more time. If he blows you off, let it go and move on. If someone from the board or wherever offers to help, maybe do the work "with" them.

Later,

Doug

 

LOL guys... I get it...

I feel "exactly" what you are talking about... I like the power surge at 7k RPM... it's almost like a turbo boost... But The "jumpiness" of the motor around 7kt RPM can be tricky. I was going through a turn and all of a sudden the bike "jumped" as I was about 7k RPM...a little unnerving... But going straight out when it kicks in it's pretty cool. But the loss of power at 4k RPM and having to down shift 3 gears to move the bike at a respectable pace is a lot of shifting. I feel like I'm CONSTANTLY shifting to keep the power where I need it without always being over 7k RPM... Clearly, I'm still getting used to the VFR and overall I could not be happier with this motorcycle. It's perfect for me. Now I just need to make it "MORE PERFECT" !!!

So Elwray, if I can get some sound by just "gutting" the baffles that would be cool. How do you gut the baffles? Is it something I can do or should a mechanic do it. Also, since the bike is under an extended warranty through July 2011, would messing with the baffles void the warranty? If you don't know the warranty answer, I can get that answer from my dealer.

My real question is "what's involved in "gutting" the baffles on the stock pipes"? I'm "semi-handy", but with a shop manual I can be "more" handy. Do you use a shop manual or do you just know all this stuff. Are you a mechanic or just mechanically inclined? I'm a financial guy for work. I did more of my own work on my bikes and cars when I was in my late teens and erly twenties. Now in my forties, I usually have a mechanic handle" most" things, but I'm not adverse to giving "gutting" the baffles a shot on my own if its simple enough...

Sounds like a FULL Power Commander Tune and proper full exhaust is about $1,500 to have someone do it? Does that sound about right??

Thanks again guys and looking forward to hooking up with the VTX ride in Jersey soon and hopefully a VFR ride in Jersey as well...

Your in Jersey, right Elwray?? I'll Private message you soon and see if we can hook up for one of those group rides... The group picture you posted looked good. Meeting some fellow VTX and VFR riders sounds like a good day...

Can I use anymore colors in this post?? WTF?? Anyway, I'm just trying to highlight the points as sometimes my e-mails/posts can get long winded....

Later guys...

Doug

 

El you got to ride my bike before you buy the power comander, I will let my bike prove you dont need one.

 

Yep, I'm in NJ - central, right near Raceway Park. I'll PM you some info about the group rides!

Exhausts for this bike are pretty pricey brand new... I was shocked at the price of these slip on exhausts at first, considering I got a full chrome exhaust for my VTX for $500 brand new, and the Microns that came on my bike were $1000+ brand new!

There are of course more affordable options out there, but they still aren't "cheap".

Gutting the baffles is easy if you have the right tools. A bandsaw is probably the easiest... I used air with the cutoff wheel. Took maybe 4 wheels I think. There is also a "partial gut" but honestly I think just going the whole way will sound better, and be easier. Basically, you cut the tip of each can completely off, just "upstream" of the weld (you'll see it once you take the heat shields off). The baffles are attached to the end cap by two tubes. Once the end cap is cut off, you can slide the whole baffle assembly out attached to the end cap and then cut the two tubes holding the baffle. Then weld the end cap back on for a stock look. Or leave the end cap off... not really a big deal either way.

These are two threads I found in a search:

http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/22382-exhaust-gut.html

http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/16824-gutting-stock-mufflers.html

If you need more help, post up a new thread about it so more people see it.

As far as warranty goes with that mod, it's probably something you should talk to the dealer about. Your "best" bet would be have a set of stock pipes on hand in the off chance you should need to bring it in for anything. Swapping them is a quick and easy job -- no special tools, no crush gaskets, etc etc.

Oh, and here are some colors just for the hell of it

 

Yes I need to see what the deal is with your mysterious 02 sensor thingy!!

 

There are plenty of threads on this board and on VFRD on how to do both a semi gut and a full gut but I think the full gut really brings out that V4 sound and it is super easy to do. The easiest way to do a full gut is to remove the exhaust and heat sheilds from the bike and then use a Sawzall to cut the end caps off just forward of the factory welds. You can then use a pair of vise grips to pull the entire baffle assembly out. Then you just need to get someone to weld the end caps back on. If you don't have access to welding equipment you can probably take it to a muffler shop and have them do it for less than $50 or find a fellow board member who you can bribe with ice cold beers. I've included a few links below to give you some ideas. The entire process took me about 3 beers which is equal to 1 hour :biggrin:

6th Gen Full Muffler Gut and Bypass - VFR Discussion

A New Way To Gut Your 6th Gen Exhaust - VFR Discussion

http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/22382-exhaust-gut.html

Different Ways To Gut An Exhaust. - VFR Discussion

Rollin

 

Good Idea on the new thread if "gutting the baffles" is the way I think I want to go. I also need to look at the links you posted.. Thanks..

Yeah, I'd also like to know what this 02 sensor thingy is too... Sounds interesting....

I've been up since 3:30 AM so I'm done for the day.

Later and again Thanks for the help and advice on how you made your bikes better so I can learn from some decent, experienced bikers...

Doug

 

Thanks again Rollin... This is great info... I really appreciate your help and havcar as well... Your guys are alright in my book.... Hopefully we can hook up and do some riding, sooner than later....

 

Thanks havcar.... I just ordered the Two Brothers Exhaust from the link you suggested. I called them to help expidite the order. Spoke to a great gal there, Michelle. I should have it in about 6 Business days as it needs to come from California cause they sold out in their warehouse (in Indiana) and are waiting on another shipment.

I had my warranty transferred at my local Honda dealer and met an x-racing mechanic (well still is but temporarily unemployed due to economy) so he had a wealth of information - we talked for about 10 + minutes. He was so high on the VFR for what it is it wasn't even funny.

He said it was a "no-brainer"... Get the Two Brothers exhaust. Apparently the manufacturer/owner is a racer and knows the VFR Honda motor quite well. He said for a reasonable price, do-it-yourself, some extra horsepower and improved sound/look, that is the route to go.

Next year I will do a full exhaust and Power Commander to take it to another level.

So for $700.00 bucks I will get a cooler looking exhaust, better sound and I can do it myself !!

The baffle cut out is too complicated for me and this way if I have any warranty issues I can just pop the original exhaust back on.

Then next year I can sell both the original Exhaust and the Two Brother slip-ons to help offset the cost of a full exhaust that entails getting rid of the power stifling Catalytic Converter and the like. This mechanic said the full exhaust and Power Commander from dyno Jet would add 20-30 HP. That is serious Horse power for this bike. The power to weight ratio will turn this thing into a screamer, even more than it is now...

I'm lovin this bike !! My VTX 1300, is getting very lonely...

Thanks again Elwray and havcar - Oh and Elwray, I registered on midatlantic (Doug C) and have already corresponded with the "CHIEF" nice guy... I'm going to donate a few bucks to that site. Everyone both here and on the other site have been very helpful.

Later,

Doug C

 

If you believe this then I would like to sell you the Statue of Liberty. I've owned it for a while but am bored with it and would like to sell it :biggrin:

Rollin

 

One of the huge benefits not mentioned is the weight savings. The bike is going to drop roughly 16 lbs of fat from up high and behind the wheel, the best possible place for that to happen. Better handling, etc. I should tell you that the 2 Bros will take several hundred miles to break-in properly. At first it's going to spark and spit, generally sounding rough and deep. After break-in it will get increasingly smooth and very deep sounding. Without the PCIII it may play a little havoc with your ECU and mixtures in the beginning. It should correct to the best of it's ability, but I'm not sure as I have never run just the pipe without the PC.

I don't think you're going to experience the HP gains that the mechanic talked about but you'll definately get a boost, torque will go up too. To do full exhaust you don't have to replace the 2 bros. chimney. You'll just need to get catless headers and possibly a mid-pipe, although I think that the mid-pipe the slip-on comes with is sufficient. I believe that 2 Bros. can custom make the needed gear for less then what you have already spent for the cans. I'd give them a call and see what can be done.

Congrats, you gonna love the way that slip-on opens up the V4. One of the best sounding sportbikes out there.

 

Skip what I just posted about 2 bros making the headers. I just called them to check on a few things for myself, and while they do make headers for most sportbikes, the VFR isn't one of them. Catless headers from a 5th gen will work but I'm not sure that the mid-pipe will. I'm going to do some checking and get back with you. Delkevic does not make headers for a 6 gen but they do for a 5 gen, so for now I am assuming that those will work as well.

 

Rollinmy kind and funny friend... Did I say I believed it? BTW, you can't sell me the Brooklyn Bridge, I own it.

FYI, I had my Hyundai Genesis Coupe worked on - AEM cold air intake and PCU flashed for the modification. The anticipated HP gain was 22-28. Actual was 43. I had to post the Dynos to prove it to the "nay-sayers". Please understand, I'm not stating I will get that, I view that as best case scenario. 30 HP is absolutely a stretch.

This guy/race bike mechanic is explaining to me some experience he has had. Likely he left out other issues that were modified. He is used to working on Fully Performing race bikes. He is NOT a VFR expert, although very familiar with it. He is a R1 and R6 guy...

Full Pipes from head to tail, kill the catalytic, and the best Power Commander properly programmed/mapped might get me 20 HP? I don't know this bike well enough yet. Is it conservatively tuned from the factory as my Hyundai was? I would have the bike Dynoed before and after to see the true HP and torque gain. I'm always curious.

Have you put in a full system, Head to Tail, remove all air flow obstruction, maybe add some air intake if possible and Power Commander and had the bike Dynoed for HP and torque before and after?

We will see but I do agree with you, 30 HP would be something else - but I was just repeating a quote - never said I believed it, I just want to be clear and not appear to be a dim wit.I've been around the block... I learn by experience and take what people say with a grain of salt and then investigate.

Also understand, he was not trying to "sell" me anything, just chatting.

Later,

Doug