2nd gen front end work threads anywhere?

I have to do a fork seal replacement on my '87. Since there is oil all over and since the bike has almost 50k miles, I figure I will do all the following:
1) Clean disk rotors (they are within spec) and wheel
2) Have new tire mounted (really needs it)
3) New fork seals
4) New steering bearing, or at least re-pack the current one.
5) New brake pads - old ones are oil-soaked
6) Possible rebuild of calipers in case they are leaking (hard to tell now, with all the oil)
7) Check wheel bearings
8) Check fork spring length and any other fork checks in the manual

I have looked over the manual and think I can do this. I'm wondering about a few points though.

Can I manage without the special tools?

Any recommendation about replacement bearings, fork oil, etc.? I thought I saw somewhere, someone talking about taper bearings for the steering.

How to deal with the anti-dive thingy? Just do what the manual says?

I don't particularly notice any slop in the front wheel or in the steering; should I leave well enough alone, and only service these bearings when they obviously need it? Would save a lot of time. Note, this machine will not be ridden to the limit as I am 60 this year - old fogies drive slow. :tongue:

If there is a thread around here describing the process, or a wiki or something, that goes beyond what the manual says or gives recommendations, I'd appreciate a pointer. Thanks...

 

Unless your steering bearings were replaced by PO they probably need replacement with STOCK OEM setup.

Don't cheap out by using crap Chinese bearings.

Be sure to clean the holes in rotor as fork oil tends to hide there.

No special tools beyond PVC pipe to press in new fork seals. Using old seal on top of new seal could prevent damage during installation.

Clean and regrease the pins that the brake calipers slide on.

Study your service manual.

" ALways respect Nature "

 

I guess I will have to ask my supplier to give me real bearings, not Chinese! Or is there a specific supplier that has the good stuff? I noticed the hondavfr.org site is down...

What does "replaced by PO" mean?

Yeah, I figured the rotor holes should get a lot of attention. Maybe take them to a car wash or something.

 

STOCK steering bearings are almost always wasted by 40k miles....much sooner if the bike's been wheelied.

Order stock OEM bearings from an online Honda parts retailer or your local dealer.

 

On this diagram:
Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki Sea-Doo Can-Am Ski-Doo Motorcycle Parts ATV parts Scooter Parts personal watercraft parts Accessories
...item 12 (which also shows up in the shop manual) is missing in the list below. Also, it was not on my brakes. Anyone know about that?

Also, the shop manual (page 16-15) says the pistons are installed with the dished ends toward the pads. My pistons are solid, with a slight (2mm deep) dish on one end and a groove on the other end, but the dish was away from the pads. I guess I will install them as I found them...

 

Forks: if you can't remove the 6 mm bottom bolt cuz it spins, you'll need to use an impact driver, manual or air-driven. It's best to have a new washer for the bolt, but often it can be reused with no leakage. Slightly loosen fork cap while still mounted on bike.

Well, #11 sometimes gets lost, but it's necessary and costs only about $5, so replace it or risk damage to caliper.

DO NOT install pistons wrong way 'round just becuz you found them that way; you can clearly see on the diagram the proper way.

Sometimes the open end has a metal backing plate fitted into the recess and what i believe is a wood (??) covering over it, possibly to reduce noise, reduce heat transfer, or to spread the load more evenly. A "Puck".

Some other Honda models ( Hawk NT 650, for example) use these "pucks" on calipers very similar to those on VFR. They're not necessary, i think, but if you have them, use them.

 

hey paul....PO stands for Previous Owner......

 

My fork seals lasted around 70,000 clams before they started weeping. Like tears but with fork fluid, anyway side note here/they were fine until I changed the fluid to Honda 5 Weight fork oil. Cant really complain though because they did last 70,000 as I said before. Have a rear Work Stand. I have the 3rd Gen bike, mine is 90-93/used the work stand in conjunction with a scissor lift under pipes. Jacked it up and took off wheel and slid fork tubes out. At that point you have to remove dust caps and cir clips etc another side note/Nasty crud in the fork tubes get a can of brake cleaner and clean the inside well. I had a prob with the allen head bolt on the bottom of one leg and had to drill it out but enough of that. Get the manual and read it well/ I swear by 7 weight fork oil. Either RaceTech or Bell Ray, As far as the brakes go, if they drag you probabaly have to service the calipers. I did this on mine and the pay off was sweet. I have EBC prolites on the front and was never that impressed with my braking power. Since I did the brakes, its teeetes. Very nice lever and everything. Front end still has original steering head bearings/I have the stock honda replacements waiting, I will use my friends lift for that job though because I want to back the bike onto the table and stick the rear wheel in the vice and jack it up from the bottom. Brake fluid is some nasty crap, I change my fluid once a year on all my junk. Good luck and enjoy the experience. What does not kill us makes us stronger.

 

Heh, no kidding.

Latest update. Got the fork tubes apart, strangely there was no gunk at the bottom of the sliders, so I will just refill after putting the seals in (I guess that means the previous owner changed the oil regularly). The oil looks green so I'm guessing it's fork oil, not atf. So I will use that - 10w, since I found another thread here about an '87 where the owner used that. If it's too viscous I'll just change it. The old dust seal and oil seal looked pretty stiff compared to the new ones, so I'm guessing it did need this change at 48k miles (although looking at the calipers, I think half the oil on the brakes came from them and half from the forks).

Also got the calipers apart, getting my boy to operate a hand pump to get the pistons out. Strangely, there was a lot of gunk under the pistons. The various rubber boots all look bad.

BTW I have no stand, just used a chain hoist pulling up on the frame near the steering head.

I think I will leave the steering head bearings alone for now. It feels good and I have enough on my plate already. When the bearings start complaining it should be easy because I now know how to tear all this other stuff off.

Yeah, I'll order the bits that are worn, but I'm talking about part #12, not #11. How can I order it if the part is not on the list (even though it's on the diagram)? I guess I will call those folks and they can figure it out for me.

Actually, the diagram to me looks like the way I found them (I'll try to post a photo here). It's only the text that is different from everything else. Again, I will ask the parts guys, although I bet they don't have a clue either. Maybe I'll go to the local Honda shop and ask a mechanic. This bit will take some research.

Are you talking about part #12? There was nothing wood there.

 

The pistons showing both ends. The one on the left shows the groove on the face (wonder what that's for), slightly protruding face, and large radius corners. This was toward the pads. The one on the right shows the very shallow dish. I have a pad there too, to show the contact points.

Actually, what other brake jobs I've done (all using hollow pistons IIRC) had the hollow end toward the brake pad, so it almost seems the pistons were put in wrong last time. But to me the diagram looks the other way, sorta.

Maybe the large radius corners are to get the brake fluid around the bottom of the piston, or something. That makes it seem like they were installed backward, too.

 

Lucky to have that chain hoist to help!

#12 is a backing plate which most bikes are lacking, so don't fret.

After you get forks back in place , try pushing and pulling forward and back to check for headset bearing wear. You're in the best position now to service them.

Notice that springs should go in with the close-wound coils down.

 

OK I finally got my brake caliper parts. Reading the manual it says, on page 16-15, "Coat the new piston seals with brake fluid and install them with the small diameter facing in."

I was expecting that to mean there is some kind of taper in the seal. But as far as I can tell, looking at it over and over, it appears to be perfectly cylindrical on both the outside and inside surface, and the top and bottom look square to the cylindrical surfaces. In other words, I can't see that there is any wrong way to install these things. Checked the dust seal too, same deal. And the old seals look the same way.

Anyone ever do a caliper rebuild on these bikes? What the heck are they talking about?

That's the same part of the manual that says, "Install the pistons with the dished ends toward the pads." I took a closer look and see a bit of wear from the seals on the wrong (convex) end, because they were installed backward. I don't see any wear at the other end. This means they were installed backward at the factory, which is hard to believe. Well, I'm still going to put what I call the dished end toward the pads, but I am getting paranoid about this...

BTW I slid a piston in without the seals just to look at it. It does look more proper with the dished end toward the pads.

I suppose the proof of the pudding is to slap these babies together and see if they leak.:tongue:

 

The main concern here is corrosion inside the caliper. That is the time consuming thing after almost 20 years of riding. I think Yamaha may anodize the inside of their brake calipers but am not sure. Anyway, you cleaned your calipers well in all the nooks and crannies I hope, and hopefully used a non aggressive scouring pad (worn out) on your pistons to get rid of that tea colour. Once all that labourous cleaning is done, you assemble them how they came out of the bike. You did make a mental note didnt you. Flat sides in towards the caliper. You can use brake fluid or I used a special brembo lube to reinsert them. Very satisfying job I must admit, I had to readjust my brake lever closer to the grip due to the tenacious brakes.

 

Yeah, I am cleaning them. Not much corrosion, just a bit of gunk under the dust seals and there was a lot of mud at the bottom of the cylinders.

Now you are the first guy telling me to put the pistons in the way I found them. In the picture above, the one at the left (with the large radius corner) is the end that was toward the pads. The manual says put the dished end toward the pad, and that one on the right showing the other end looks like a dished end to me. It also seems to fit better when I slide the piston in the cylinder to check, with the dished end out, flat side in.

Well, I will go ahead and cross my fingers.

 

Damn girl friend left me no coffee, what was I gona say? err Yes! Flat side in, like ur picture on the right. Doing my brakes was maybe one of the more satisfying services I did on the bike. I have a F3 front wheel with EBC rotors and it never really overwhelmed me with braking prowess. Now, it brakes sweet and like I said before, I had to adjust the lever closer to the grip, nice two finger braking action. You could also take apart the actual brake lever and grease the pin. I have seen them get kinda scummy and this would result in giving you a wooden feel. Coffee is ready, Take ur time cleaning those calipers, use hot water and soap. No chemicals, No brake cleaner nothing but soap and water. I re-used the dust seals and the main ones with no problem. Laterville