Slick Marketing and lots of Hype

Yo Squirrlydude:

When using a quote to substantiate an argument or make a point, the quote should not be a compilaton of several quotes, but a single quote from a single source. Otherwise it doesn't make sense and one could conclude that maybe a squirrel has been chewing on the wiring.

You got me on that question. I have never seen those warehouses but then again, I live on the left coast with the rest of the bucolic set. I could show you with proper ID where the Honda's that come in on ships are warehoused in Seattle.




"Who supplies the dealers with factory incentives?

I know it ain't Moe or any of his crew. Just kidding. I know the question is rhetorical.

 

I think the original premise is a good one. Honda knew to the penny what the costs were on bringing the 2010 VFR into production and exactly to the penny what price would be charged to the dealers and the MSRP that would be on each bike in each market. Coming from a family that was in the new car business for many years I understand this business. With cars (having so many options you can order) no car is built without a corresponding dealer order. Since bikes come "packaged" the manufacturer can build enough to fill projected sales requirements, some going to dealers and others going to warehouse. Very few dealers actually purchase their inventory and own it outright. Some bikes will remain in the manufacturer warehouse as manufacturer inventory that dealers can then draw from. Inventory is all floor planned i.e. financed, and usually through a financial company owned by the manufacturer. As a result the dealer takes possession of the vehicle and sells it to the customer, hopefully at a price that makes a profit for the dealer. The manufacturer has a guaranteed price coming to them as part of this transaction and the finance company transfers that amount to the manufacturer when the dealer gets the vehicle. When, as with the left over 07 and 08 VFR's,(these left over bikes were largely the result of the unforeseen world wide economic crash and not because the product would not otherwise sell or that too many were produced) the dealer is unable to sell them sometimes the manufacturer will rebate some amount of money to the dealer, a "dealer incentive", to help move the inventory. If not then the dealers may end up losing money on the inventory they have. The manufacturer does these incentives as it is bad press/marketing for their older new models to still be sitting around the dealerships when the new ones are introduced. Some dealers sell those "incentivized" bikes at the full discounted price while others still try and get higher prices and keep the incentive themselves with the result that, as with my dealer, Chenango Imports in Utica, NY, they end up going out of business. Manufacturers NEVER put any product into production without knowing the expected unit sales numbers, the exact cost of production, MSRP and any potential liabilities arising from the product. So, no price available for the 2010 VFR? You bet, the marketing department gets their say on this. The operative word there is "available". Honda have the price, as do the dealers. They are just not saying what it is, which for me sends the message that it is probably far beyond what the previous model was priced at. Yep, if I was looking for a new bike I would have to look at the MS 1200 even with a 33.5 inch seat height and my 30" legs. Duc valves are easily serviced by the owner. As I understand it, not so much with the VTEC. Sorry for going on so long on this but I felt facts would be helpful on this one.

 

Honda seems to dictate what to buy and is bound to irk some of the market. I my case, there are no small bikes anymore. The VFR went from a 500 to eventually this 1200. I personally don't like being supersized into a 24 ounce "small" coke. In my eyes this bike has morphed away from a true VFR. It looks like a ST with a single sidearm.

Badbilly; Kent or Auburn isn't it?

 

Having family in the car biz does not especially make one any sort of expert in the car or more specifically the bike biz. You might find that in the car biz the "options" are less and less with each passing year and one buys by the model. I drive a Nissan. Same basic body and chassis. Depending on the model, the goodies come with that model. All that other crap the dealers try to tack on like undercoating, rust protection, upholstery protection and who knows what all, is where the hype is.

Just try and buy a bike in a crate sometime..LOL Does it really void the warranty if the dealer doesn't "assemble" the machine? I figure that if as you say, adjusting desmo valves on a duc is doable, the average guy should be able to put a bike on the road as well. Maybe the dealerships want to do the assembly because the customer might "need" an aftermarket exhaust, some heated grips, a tank or saddlebags or in the case of Harleys about five grand worth of shit to weigh the bike down so it doesn't float off into the blue sky.

Desmodromic valvetrains go back to the last century and are not the particular purview of Ducati. Ducati seems to be claiming 18k miles/adjustment. On newer ducs maybe on the older duc surely not. Several search engine searches indicate that Ducati dealers are charging as much as 80 buck an hour and to do the desmo valves is about a 5 hour job. Just the thing that some DIY mechanic ought to be doing.

Just for grins this guy is having problems even finding out how to adjust the duc desmos.

Ducati Motorcycle Repair - Maintenance - webBikeWorld

 

Dealers assemble bikes as an attempt to limit claims for liability when the ever so expert customer forgets to tighten up a needed bolt etc as well as to justify the "dealer prep fees". Also, at least here in NY, a registered motor vehicle dealer MUST provide a MV 50 transfer form and state required safety inspection of the vehicle to the purchaser upon delivery of the vehicle. With the bike in the crate that is simply impossible (not to mention illegal, cause to be fined, lose the inspector license and inspection station license and possibly the dealer registration as well). As far as voiding a warranty - since you can do all the other after delivery service yourself so long as you keep documentation, there is your answer on that point.

Apparently you misinterpret my statement of "family in the new car biz". Having been intimately involved in those operations and having served as legal counsel to those businesses I do happen to have an expertise beyond those viewing things from the outside. Please let us know where your expertise on the subject comes from. 'nuf said. I am off to spend the day with my family and loved ones. No more 'net until tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving to all who observe it! :thumbsup:

 

Nice try counselor. Try leaving that one bolt loose on a desmo valvetrain just once. Consider too, that we all don't live in NY. Granted that some great men and women have come from there, the bureaucrats have run amok for 300 years and y'all just keep on letting them get away with it. The issue of voiding the warantee in this context is a red herring argument. How bout those 600 mile checks that must be performed by at least the Honda dealers and other various mileage markers on other bikes?

Leg humping for a little biz? According to my closest family member the worst thing second only for a lawyer to represent him or her self is to have a "family member" as counsel. It clouds the issues. My closest family member? Rice and Yale Law.

Do I have family in the biz? I had three but one of them decided he was gonna sell nosecandy like he was schlepping used cars and somebody cut him in half with an eight guage.

The other two are a nephew who just got back from Tokyo after three years there and beaucoup lessons in Japanese before that. As I understand his position he is in charge of all factory sales West of the Mississippi. My sis worked for the same company and ran the computer operations for California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and Washington.

Moi? I don't put my biz on the street so as not to be misinterpreted.

The menu for today at my pad is turkey.

 

I'm PRETTY damn sure that this is covered rather well under federal law..... I could be wrong but I don't think I am .....

in fact go do research on the Magnuson-Moss Act.....

been the law since 1975.

 

One of the shorter acts to hit the bricks, that was a trademark of Senator Magnuson. The full text of the act is here:



http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/15C50.txt


Notice that under the act various parts of the act are decided upon in Federal as well as State Court.

If the legalese is daunting, there are several sites that explain the act in English. The act is also short enough to whip out on some dude who is trying to BS ya on what your "rights" are when all the MF wants is to keep your money and bend you over the sawhorse a few more degrees.

 

It is my unfortunate duty to report that Uncle Moe has gone to his reward in the great used car lot in the blue sky. RIP

 

Yeah, I checked most of the usual suspects but ABQ is real big on cruisers and not as much on other bikes. The majority of independent shops here deal with HD's or their clones. Other shops I've talked to didn't strike me as any more competent then I am.

As for your watch comparison, kind of apples to oranges don't you think. I do all my own work on the bike and feel competent to do almost any task including pulling the motor. Whats holding me back from doing the VTEC adjustment is buying the specialized tool(s) for I task I will probably only do once.

Finally, this is from the first Ducati valve adjustment hyperlink in your previous post:
"The valve adjustment on the 4V motor seems easier than on the 2V in a way. Everything just seems to unbolt very easily and things just fall off the bike. Very easy to work on. While at first, things may seem cramped as compared to the 2V heads, it isn't so.'

Action

 

Sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place or just need to pop for the tools. I hope you don't have to sell your bike since by your post you are not finding what you need to get those valves adjusted.

I submit that if your home base is that shy of shops that work on much other but HD's and clones (some of which are Hondas) finding a Ducati shop or private tech would leave you in the same unfortunate circumstance.

The watch is a nearly 50 year old LeCoulte. Easy to get into but not something I would want to try fixing. I should have explained that more fully. Not a problem though. Lots of qualified people in Seattle that are really good on bikes and watches. My main guy calls himself a "born again" bike wrench. Certified on Honda, BMW and Ferrari. Tool and die maker by trade.

I'm thinking you should maybe look around some more. Albequerque is a fair sized place unlike some places like Buzzardsbeak, Montana.

For most watches, a case wrench or a case opening blade will get ya into the innards. They work well with a few exceptions like the "Swiss Army" watches. Harborfreight has some case wrenches for about 7-8 bucks. Watch repair and mall type jewelry stores get about ten bucks a throw for battery replacement. A little tip. If ya have a battery driven movement, pulling out the stem if storing the watch will add to the battery life.

I really like my air cooled bikes. Got a R100RS BMW with Krauser heads and a punched out Yamaha SR500. All ya need to do the valves is a set of metric wrenches and a few really long feeler gauges.