having some wierd bike issues

Squirrelman was supposed to wait for the springs I was sending, but instead cobbled up something and sent the carbs back to Matt. I believe Matt replaced the springs before he put them back on.

 

Regarding the issue of removing the ECS (Evaporative Control System). I am including this quote from another thread on removing the ECS. Please note that the only difference between CA and 49 State carburetors appears to be in the addition of the ECS ports on the 59's. Keitin 58's have the same float bowl vents as the 59's, but if you look at where the ECS ports are on a Keitin 58 you will only see the dimple in the boss where a 59 would have its 90degree bent brass fitting for the ECS line to connect to. It is very doubtful that your Keitin VD31 is that much different from the Keitin VD59. I think I have a set of 31's but I don't have them available at this moment.

"On page 167 of the Clymer manual there is a diagram of the Evaporation Control System (ECS). The ECS is merely a system for recirculating the vapor collected from the tank. The drawing (#62) is a bit confusing because of some modifications in the drawing related to its simplification of the real thing. At the bottom of page 167 is another drawing (#63). This is a better representation of the PCV valve. In #62 they write out the name of the valve "Purge Control Valve". This valve has 3 lines running into it. The drawing below it shows the "hocky puck" looking thing as having 4 lines running into it. The ‘PCV’ is the purge control valve, is the “hocky puck”. They are all the same things. The #62 representation shows the line out of the PCV as one single line that subsequently splits into two lines going into the cylinder head inlets downstream of the carburetors. Actually it should show the outlet splitting into 4 lines, one for each carburetor. The drawings leave something to be desired. The representation of the carburetors is as diaphragm housing with a spring extending into the inlet of the carburetors. The drawing was obviously done by someone who knows next to nothing about the carburetors or how they look in cross section.

Here is the low down. The charcoal can is merely a receptacle for storing vapor overnight or during the time the cycle is parked. The PCV valve is operated by a vacuum diaphragm that utilized the low pressure of the #3 inlet port by tapping into the #3 intake port at the same threaded hole used for installing a carburetor balancing line. When you start the cycle the vacuum in the #3 intake port down stream of the carburetor, opens the PCV valve by creating suction on the diaphragm in the PCV valve. The low pressure in the general manifold of both the 1-3 bank and the 2-4 bank would suck the vapor in the charcoal canister into the downstream side of the manifold. The #62 drawing calls the vacuum line going to the #3 intake port the "p.c. port". It appears that the outlet side of the PCV valve goes to the side opposite the p.c. port. That is another part of the confusion of drawing #62. ( Note: if you look back at drawing #61 and you will see them pointing to the diaphragm-spring things and calling them carburetors.)

I have looked at my Keitin 59’s and they have the suction ends of the outlets coming from the PCV “hockey puck” going to brass tubes that fit right above the throttle rod drill holes. Each of the 4 carburetors is fitted with a small 90 degree bent brass fitting that ports to the low pressure side of it's respective carburetor's closed butterfly valve. When the motorcycle is started and throttle plates (butterfly valves) are closed, the low pressure builds up to just behind the closed plates. With the plates closed the manifold pressure is at a minimum (lowest pressure) at each inlet port. This is when the #3 tap for the vacuum line that operates the PCV diaphragm is at its maximum suction power. The PCV diaphragm is wide open at idle and the evaporated gas trapped in the charcoal canister is sucked into the cylinder head inlets behind the closed butterfly valves along with the idle mixture. In the early morning when the walls of the inlets are cold the vapor sucked in actually helps to start the cold engine.

What power does the Evaporative Control System (ECS) rob from the motor? Essentially nothing. The only work being done is the opening and closing of the PCV diaphragm. The small ports that allow trapped evaporated gasoline to be recirculated into the cylinders to be burned is not an added burden on the fuel system. If you think about how the Evaporative Control System (ECS) works you will realize that as you open your throttles and the pressure differential between the outside air and the air in your intake manifold becomes nearly equal, that essentially no air or evaporated gas will enter via the taps down stream of the throttle butterflies.

The fact that your Vf 500 had 2 "hockey pucks" is an indication that someone who did not want to take the tank off and mess with the split outlet lines messed with the ECS. They got a second PCV (hockey puck) so they only had to pull the line that went to either of the cylinder banks in order to close off the ECS ports. Why? Because when the PCV is not hooked to a inlet port (vacuum source) the valve is closed and no vapor/air will enter via the ECS ports.

Since you don't have a charcoal canister you need only plug each of the little 90 degree turned brass fittings that are above the throttle shafts on each carburetor to disable what was essentially an innocuous piece of emission control.

The remaining bit of emission control is, as I said elsewhere, built into your carburetors. It is a vent that allows vapors that arise from inside the float bowls of all Keitin VD 58-59 carburetors to vent to the air plenum."

 

You can't be far from getting it right, so now is not the time to give up on the problem. :smile:

I want to know what you did about those springs? I want to know how you set up the carbs for balance if you did not change out to the correct springs. Finally, I want you to look for the little 90 degree brass fittings that act as the hose connections on your Keitin VD 32A carbs. My Clymer manual has a diagram of the ECS for the 1986 model vf500f on pages 328-9 (Drawings 41,42 and 43). Your Keitin VD 32A's probably have the same sort of 90 degree brass fittings that were described re the Keitiin vd59 A's in the previous reply. You need to block each of those off individually. They port into the venturi of each carburetor downstream of the throttle plates. If you have one that is leaking air it might contribute to some of the surging etc. Block them all off and try again. That does not mean that you have to keep them blocked off. You can reinstall the ECS if you want. But for purposes of eliminating all possible sources of surge or carb unbalance block them all off for the time being.

At the same time, while running the motor with the ECS ports plugged try spraying WD40 or some other light weight oil on the rubber seals that connect the carburetor outlets to the cylinder head inlets and see if there is any up tick in idle speed when you get the fluid down into a possible vacuum leak at the base of that individual carbs body (or the seal at the cylinder head inlet). If there is a change in engine speed when you wet down one or more of the rubber seals you have a vacuum leak at that seal. Fix it and try the bike out again.

As for the balance adjustment springs, they must be to factory spec. I went into a long discussion on the problem you run into if you do not have the correct length springs and screws on the balance adjustment portions of the assembly. It's the assembly of the carburetors on to the plenum that is crutial. If the wrong parts are in the balance adjustment area then you will not be able to balance the carburetors. It has to do with the small distance that you can compress the standard carb adjust springs, and the interference of the screws with the adjustment flats if they are too long. I'll try to go back and find that long reply I sent.

 

the carb adjusment springs are on there squirrel sent the carbs back full assembled im very unsure the problem but i do think its carb related

 

BINGO :thumbsup:

 

by the way i would like to buy some 84-85 good complete carbs with nothing missing and no stripped holes or screws

 

I keep seeing sets on Ebay but they always end up waaaaay over $100

 

here y'all go need a place to put a updated picture of my son jacob

 

My God your head is ugly.

 

Hey DKC: don't your fingers ever get tired? E-gads man!

 

I get tired like anyone.

But I'm a damn typin' fool when I gits a taste a 'splainin thing's.:biggrin:. I's tired now. Spent the whole day in the heat in Whittier taking care a' load o' big pumps. Gots to go back dare t' marro'. They wants me t' field balance the 3 worst o' those suckers. Ther 's a big brush fire next to da 60 freeway and I was stuck in traffic fer 2 hours trying ta git home. I's still buzzing from creeping 2 to 3 mph for 10 miles on the freeway in 88 degrees a heat. I do belibe I's gittin' sick.

 

wow you know how to make a guy feel good about him self

 

Jamie,

It's not just the head it's the whole package :biggrin:

Let's pray that those kids have their mother's looks :wink:

Rollin

 

No problem man, I do what I can.

 

i always knew you cared

 

ok class heres what i've learned about the problems that keeps affecting my bike one of my cylinders keeps getting loaded up on fuel and causeing the plugs to miss fire resulting in a dead cylinder but heres the kicker when you pin the throttle to clear it out she takes a few sec's and clears out and runs like a two dollar whore! what causes this float height and pliot, jet, pliot ccurcit, etc... so what have we learn today class

 

OH OH OH!!! ME ME ME!!!

I'd say we've learned to focus our efforts on where the problem is coming from and not to bother checking something else just because it's easy to do. If the clues are telling you that it's carburation related, then most likely checking the electrical system is a waste of time.

Am I right?