VFR Left me STRANDED on the road today!!

WARNING, LONG POST!

For the first time ever a VFR left me stranded. After a nice hour and a half ride into Toronto today she just up and quit with no warning while idling at a stop light. Several pokes at the start button resulted in nothing more than a click.......click.......click. Shit! With traffic behind me I had to push my beloved off the road to investigate further. All the lights were lit and the fuel pump ran but there wasn't enough juice in the battery to crank the engine. The starter solenoid would clatter but not fully make a connection. So for the last hour while I was sailing along, fat dumb and happy, totally unaware that the battery was discharging. Now it was flat and I was stuck in a Canadian Tire parking lot of all places. Could be worse I suppose.:frown:

They had a battery but I reasoned that it would likely only take me to the scene of the next failure as the charging system was obviously caput. I'm thinking the RR unit has gone south. It was at this point I called the cavalry to hook up the trailer and come get us. I found a nice tree and sat under it for two hours while Missus Jethro came to the rescue.

Back at the inlaws I'm troubleshooting so I don't waste time and money (especially money) on the wrong part/s. I charge the battery for an hour and hit the button (vroom) back to life she comes just like nothing happened. I grab the trusty borrowed digital volt meter to see whassup. I'm thinking:

A, It will be charging at 13.75 volts, the RR is fine and the battery for some reason just won't hold a charge. $100 fix.

B, It will be charging at 11.5 volts (not charging at all) an I need to dig in for the $200+ clams for a new RR unit.

I'll be damned if it is charging at 13.4 ish volts which drops to around 13 when reved up. So I'm thinking, I'm not really a lucky fellar and usually when sh&^ breaks it's the expensive stuff that goes. The system is kinda working at lest at this moment but it has demonstrated today that something is definitely up. I suspect that the RR is intermitent as the battery recovered with a short trickle charge. The weak charge numbers (13.4 to 13.0) indicate to me that the system is not operating at peak or optimal levels at this moment. If they were doing this today I would not have been stranded. For the EFI to quit with the engine running and the starter not to crank, the voltage must have dropped to 10v or below, I would think.

Any thoughts???

 

ecu's on just about any powered equiptment w/ 12v supply will totally shut down around 9.5 volts. Have you checked all your power & ground connections yet? It could be as simple as a broken or corroded ground that creates higher resistance when under power. If you still suspect the RR the $200 clams will be well worth it if it decides to go south in the middle of B.F.E. There is a lot of places w/ alot of nothing but good scenery between Ill. & Toronto. Unless of course hiking is something you've always wanted to do but never had time for before.

 

Sounds like what my Radian would do. It would hold a charge for a while then the battery would crap out. I did some trouble shooting but could never find the problem. After two batteries (and a short convo with the auto parts guy) I was finally able to conclude that the r/r was only charging intermittently. I replaced the r/r with an Electrex unit from Dennis Kirk (or was it Bike Bandit?) and that seemed to cure the problem. Also, DK had an Kuryakin (sp) battery gauge that I spliced in so I could see what the system was doing. I saw that at idle, the voltage on the Radian was between 11 and 12, but at road speed with was around 14, which is what the svc manual calls for. I would go ahead and get a replacement r/r and the gauge then put the gauge and see what it is doing. Then if it shows its charging all the time, then maybe it was a fluke, but you will have that extra r/r just in case.

 

I like sure things and extra walking is something I don't want to have forced upon me by my motorcycle.

I have to go to the US Consulate in Toronto tomorrow, so a visit to Cycle World or Brampton Cycle is in order I suppose.

 

I don't if this will help, but here is a story I will share about my ordeal.....

I had my VFR for 5 years before I had to change my battery. The battery would have lasted longer if I had removed it and put it on a trickle charger during the months I spent deployed.

Yea, the battery is dead when I get back, but stubborn me, I decided to jump start and ride it to get the battery charged.

I soon learn a lesson the hard way.....

I figure if I can restart with no problem after shutting down, I should have no more problems. Wrong answer!!!

I had found myself stranded after stopping at a popular biker hangout at Lake Berryessa CA and feeling a bit embarrassed. I tried to restart my bike up once again by push starting but having no luck. I almost lost my temper before sanity keep my cool.

I realized that I was a current member of the Honda Riders Club (HRCA) and gave them a call. About 40 mins later, a tow truck showed up and he put a meter on my battery. He told me it was dead. Duh! I could of figure that one out Einstein. He asks me how long have I had this battery. I told him it is the original battery.

"Yep, that is what I thought" he said. I have seen this a lot. Your battery has lost its capacitance and will no longer hold a charge.

Ok, why won't it start if I push start it? I asked.

His reply was "something else is broke".

Grinding my teeth now and imaging myself slapping the crap out of "Bubba the tow truck driver", I calmly asked if he can haul bike to my home.

Fearing that my plastic is now going to get all messed up, I was surprise on how well he loaded it up and secure it with out scratch any of my plastic.

Riding back in a tow truck reminded me of the time I wreck my ZX-7 back in 89. I swallowed my pride and listened to the many stories that "Bubba, the tow truck driver" had to tell about picking wreck bikes.

An hour later, we arrived at my place and he carefully off-loaded my bike. I tipped him $12. and thanked him.

Next morning (Sunday), I got eager to find out what in the hell is wrong with my bike. First thing was to replace the battery since it was 5 years old. Ahh shit, its Sunday, the Honda shop is closed. I get online and check to see what price I should expect to pay. Then I search for any other motorcycle specialties shop that might be open.

I do find a few stores that have batteries and of course they don't have my model in stock. I finally track down a battery that they have in stock and of course it is 90 miles away in Milpitas, CA with only hour and 40 minutes before closing. "How much?" I asked, and they replied 68 plus tax. I'll be there.

It took me hour 28 mins to get there and I thought they had closed since all the doors were closed and just a few light inside were on. I saw someone inside and banged on the door.

He pointed to me to go to the door next the service entrance. He told me were closing and I interrupted him and stated "yea, I know, I called about the battery for the VFR".

Oh yea, he goes to behind the counter and hands me a new battery still in the box.

"Hey, this battery is not charged" I replied. No problem he said, its very easy to service and charge. Just follow the filling instructions and put a 2 amp charger on it for 10-12 hours and you will have a fully charged battery ready to go.

Ok, sounds easy, anything else I should know? "There is one more thing" he replied "I need your old battery for the core charge or I will have to charge it to you".

Damn!! You didn't tell me that before I drove 90 miles to pick a battery.

I am sorry.....tell you what, I won't charge you. Just drop it off when you can.

I paid for the battery and hurried back home so I can service it and start the lengthy charging process.

Next morning, I grab the battery go to install it on the VFR. I finally finish the installation after spending a great deal of time cleaning/detailing the VFR. I turn the key and the instruments came alive and hear the fuel pump priming itself. I pressed the ignition and the bike started right up. Instead feeling relieved and happy that my VFR is running, I became puzzled and then worried thinking that I am going to drain this battery.

Figuring the best thing to do is to ride it to my friend’s house and use his multi meter to see if there is a charge going to my new battery. I ride to his house, pull off the seat and put the meter on the battery leads. Whatya know, 14 volts.

Now I am feeling relieved and I head back home with confidence that all it was the battery.

While driving back home, guess what!!! I come to a stop at an intersection and the VFR shuts down. What the f@%k!!!

Cars are lining behind me and I jump off and start pushing the VFR to the near-by Taco Bell parking lot. I pull off the seat again, and inspect the battery and leads. Everything looks good. I cycle the ignition key and noticed that there was nothing happening. Ok... I need to first get a Pepsi and settle myself down before I do something stupid.

After sucking down an ice cold Pepsi, I went back to do some trouble shooting. I figured the battery should have more enough of a charge to light up something, so I figured it was something that came loose. I loosened up my tail cowling to gain a better view of the wiring. As I started moving wires around to inspect connections the lights on the VFR came on. I looked hard at the wiring and try to trace it to a short. After an hour in the Taco bell parking and 10 mosquito bites later, I found the problem.

It was a loose solenoid on the left side. I looked like it was fully connected, but I found out the electrical boot that covers the connectors hide the loose connection.

I don't know if there is a morale to this story, but the hell I went through may of been prevented if I spend some time looking the over entire bike from time to time.

 

i have had a similar problem... i find the bike charges fine and i have a new battery.. but i dont like leaving the ignition on with the ..lights on and if its hot ..the fans on...i know the battery will go down..thats why i have a set of jumpers under the seat

 

Well it has been a week and the darn thing is running just like nothing happened. I wonder if it just doesn't like Toronto? We'll find out as I'm taking it through TO on Friday to meet a bunch of the Ontario VFR guys for diner in Guelph.

I have ordered a really slick onboard voltmeter with a red warning led to alert me if it starts to discharge during a ride. It also has a air temp gage, clock and ice warning indicator. At least I will have some idea of what is going on before it just up and quits in the middle of an intersection. I'll post a review after it arrives.

Fingers crossed!!!

 

13.0 to 13.4 is not enough

 

Any updates or progress ?

 

I just came from an Aprilia Futura and the exact thing happened. I started down shifting to stop at a stop sign and the engine shut off.

I don't know why they call it a 12 volt battery because a car or bike needs over 12volts to start. Why did your bike cut out? Like you said, because of the charging system. Once the bike's charging system starts failing whether it be a cut wire or bad rectifier (the metal thing at the front right side mounted on the frame), it's just a matter of time. The bike will run on raw battery power and since the battery isn't charged it fails to keep the bike running.

What Steve Tech said. With the bike off you should be at around 12.7 - 12.9 volts at minimum. Once running the bike should be above 14 volts. I just went out and checked mine for you and that's what it's reading while running.

The problem on my Futura happened to be 2 things. One, the rectifier was bad and wasn't keep a good charge. Two, one of the plastic harness connectors meted due to a weak connection which created heat due to resistance (arching connector creating more than normal heat). Eventually the plastic connector melted and that killed the connection from my battery to the charging system.

Check all your connections before you go riding. Something isn't working in the charging system or it wouldn't have died.

 

I changed the battery and now it charges at over 14v. Several hundred miles later and all is still fine.

I had checked all connections and they were good, the bike was charging at idle fine and for short rides all was well but something would happen on a longer ride. I don't know if the heat caused the battery to draw too much charge and overwhelmed the charging system or what but it was definetly the battery at fault.

 

charging monitor

harbor freight sells a cheap led meter (about $4) which can be easily connected to bike's battery and will indicate rate of charge. they call it an alternator tester. and the various colored led's look cool too. you'll have to work hard and use some imagination to find a place to mount it on the bike, however.

 

Well, now that I read your post on changing the battery, I forgot the other problem I experienced in my car and truck. My truck seemed to take a bit to start even though it was new. I tested it with a volt meter and it seemed a little low but I almost didn't believe it since I had just bought it.

I took it in for service on another issue and the dealer said they happened to check the battery and that I had a bad cell which was creating low voltage. Made perfect sense to me. I should have payed attention to the volt meter in the first place.

So, next time someone has this problem check your charging system and check that the battery doesn't have a problem.

 

So how about that review, or some pics and a link to it. I'd like to get a thermometer on mine and having a volt meter would be handy too.

I just had a similar experience on my recently purchased '94. I started it up at home and rode about 15-20 miles to the closest Cycle Gear. Got there, did my business and was back on my moto in about 10-15 mins. Not even enough time for it to cool down. I find the battery completely dead. Not even enough juice for the dash lights or clock. I got someone to jump me from a small car. No dice. Had my roommate come to jump me with his truck and more powerful battery and alternator. Now my bike fired right up. I let it idle for a few minutes while I gathered my things. I disconnected the jumper cables and instantly the battery died. So, I ran to WallyWorld since I know they sell motorcycle batteries and they were my best chance at 8:30pm. Installed the battery and was on my way.

Now, I haven't had a chance to do any testing, but my initial thought is that when I had jumped it with the old battery and then removed the cables, the bike should have stayed running. So, I'm thinking that something in my charging system has crapped out. Any suggestions?

I will be trying these troubleshooting steps when I get a chance: http://www.electrosport.com/Images/fault_finding.pdf

 

go ahead and get a r/r instead of waiting and getting stranded again.my 98 did the exacyt same thing and 13.4 will get you stuck once more

 

According to the Honda factory service manual, the voltage at the battery should be between 13.5-16V @5000 RPM. The current should run from 5-9A @5000 RPM.

So, the troubleshooting steps in the link I posted above may not be 100% accurate since a few of the steps peak at 14.8V and factory spec seems to be higher.

 

I never did get the volt meter mounted on the bike and I sold it to Derek in early September. The issues dissapeared after the new battery was installed and all appeared to be fine. Derek contacted me a few weeks ago and the gremlins have resurfaced so I suggested that he get a new RR unit as it has to be intermitant.

Hopefully he has done that and all is well again.

 

Say it ain't so!

Your 90 never took a piss on you, did it?out:

 

My 90 was rock solid reliable. My 91 had a regulator start to fail (flickering lights) so I replaced it with no further issues. The 98 seems to have been a little more devious with likely the same root cause.

Now I have a Ducati which is charging fine so far.

 

Ordered a R/R today from Performance Honda out of Tampa. Should be here beginning of next week. Figure its Jan, might as well ride the bike in these 50 degree temp. Can't ride the brand new sled sitting in the garage.
Brad, cross your fingers