rectifier, R/R, neutral switch, alternetor wires

ok gurus - i recently had my starter clutch changed, (86 VFR 700F) i noticed my nutral light was on all the time ( where is that switch located??) i ignored it .
my battery died, checked charging system, 3 yellow wires coming from the alternator fried at the plug to the R/R connector (why are these wires thiner then the R/R yellow wires? is this normal?) replaced R/R and plug.

1k miles later checked R/R conector to alternator completly melted together
changed plug, instaled aluminum heat sink ( homemade 1" wide aluminum bars decked toghether between r/r and frame)
checked battery voltage 13.5 @ 4k rpm -12.8 @ idle -11.5 @off.

iam not having any electrical problems at the moment bike starts at first try every time.
Q1-Do the wires frying up indicate a problem in the making?
Q2-nutral switch light been stuck on got anything to do with it?
Q3-does instaling a cooling fan actually help?

thanks in advance.
P.S
i read as many threads as i could find on the subject - you guys are the best!

 

The neutral switch is basically under the dipstick. This switch sends a grounding to the light to turn on.... Pull the wire off the switch ( should just be a quick disconnect connector) and see if the light stays on... If it does trace the wire looking for a short. This COULD be causing your r&r problems cuz of the ground short.

 

thanks again i had a funny feeling about that

 

No. Frying wires are standard on this bike. :smile:

I'm guessing the wires are only fried next to the connector, which heats up and melts anything near it. Probably the wires are fine, a couple of inches away from the connector, right? Lose the connector, and make the connections with solder.

Doubtful. If it was shorted enough to cause problems, a fuse would blow. If the switch is just on all the time, it's only a small load, the light in the dash. Additional loads (if anything) probably make the R/R work easier, not harder.

I think so. Does a fan on a computer CPU help? They are both solid state electronics. Some may dispute this however. My problem with a fan is that it is "inelegant", but it should work.

 

LOL - as many people that have problems with'em it may be a standard, but thanks for the precise replys-"solder the wires" you are the 3rd person to sugest that, we may be on to something here. What are your feelings on the difference in wires gauge do you think it may be contributing to the heat? or not!
thanks again for all the info

 

ok, first, Welcome. Second. Here are some threads you should read. They are general to all motorcycles.. esp VFR's. I wrote them with the experiences I had from 0 to 100% rebuild on an 87 VFR 700 F2. VERY similar to your bike.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/22279-ghost-says-lets-learn-about-r-rs.html

http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/22254-ghost-says-lets-learn-about-batteries.html

and lastly, I will answer your questions... I quoted Paul, cause he is 95% correct. The only correction to make is the addition of the fan. using Pauls analogy, computers require fans, because the chipsets are not capable to handle the heat, and provide the performance. Processor chips contain materials which are suitable for high speed bit control. However, those same materials which are good for the electricity, are not good at handling high temperature. Rectifiers, on the other hand, are rated to withstand very high temperatures. Reason being, is the diodes inside are under constaint resistance strain. Resistance + AMPS = heat. Subsequently, those components in Rectifiers, are designed to operate at a set temperature. The Heatsinks and fins on the sides assist in NORMAL heat dissipation. A fan would most likly hinder the operation of the units components, and reduce the life expectancy. There have been shelf life studies done within the automotive industry. Being an engineer myself... those components would not pass USCaRR testing and make it onto vehicles unless they worked at operating temperature. If they did fail, a fan or another cooling source would have been added.

Now, the wiring sucks. Even Honda will admit, there have been technical engineering advances for wire manufacturing and specification to strand count which was not present during gen one and gen two Honda bikes. Changing the wire gage to match, and addition of a central grounding system would definitely help... though, let me remind... still not REQUIRED.

one last thing. regarding the neutral indicator light; The problem is the connector wire near the oil fill tube, is loosing contact. pull this curled connector off, clean it as well as possible... spray cleaner, fine files, light sand paper, etc.. (just be sure not to take off the plating of the connector, you only want to clean it). check the connection interference... if the curled connector isnt making good contact, you can use a pair of needle nose plyers to bend it in a little more. Re-connect the connection, and you should be good.

 

Air/wind gets blown onto an R/R whenever the bike is moving more than a snails pace. I do not see how you are drawing a difference between having a fan blow air on an R/R, and having air blown on it as the bike is in motion.

Yes, as the bike moves, "more" air flows over the "entire" R/R than a fan would generate at a stop....however I do not believe (without some hard data on R/R in this setup which shows it contributes to failures) that adding a fan will do anything more than possibly cool the R/R a bit more and make some noise. Well, I guess the only thing I think you are trying to get at is that the fan may not be flowing air over the entire R/R or enough air in your opinion, thus concentrating the cooling in a limited area.

 

ok, no problem, this is as factual as I have it at the moment. I shared this info in chat earlier.... note the date.

I am an automotive engineer... I have a PE license. I am currently working on a program for one of my customers, Toyota, for a Rectifier assembly. Granted there is no regulator, built in, (thats technically a seperate component anyway). I have blocked out sensitive information due to confidentiality agreements... Im not going to get fired for a message board.



Also, I never said it would fail... just hinder its performance. So as to not let anyone put words in my mouth, (erm text heh), or read into this incorrectly, my point is saying, there is ZERO benifit to adding fans to R/R's.
If anything, you could reduce the life expectancy and reduce performance of the unit, and thus a conclusion can be made, reduce the life expectancy of your battery, should the R/R be constantly 5% below normal.

 

What if I place it in a bath of liquid nitrogen? Would my bike go faster? Or just a 'bit' Ok, probably no one gets or cares for that pun.

 

ya, know... you got me thinking. I have never put electronics in LN2, then tried to run it. Thats ~ -210°C. I wanna try it. I'll post results later.

 

excellent information, thank you so much.
regarding the wiring replacement - if you are familiar - "wire my bike" offers such a kit - Is it similar to what you are talking about?
and lastly: from all the info i am gathering on the VFR R/R's overheating problem seems that all the sugestions are designed to "..should help.." rather then to " .. fix.." the issue.
I would be wise to accept this as a regularly recuring part of life and move on.

 

yes, and yes

 

Now thats the best attitude I have heard lately from anyone on this forum.