Just bought an '85 VF750F Interceptor for $1600

That's Canadian dollars.
It only has 18,000kms (11,000mi)
It's totally original and runs great.

I've been doing some research and they're known to have oil & cam issues.
Should I take it to a Honda dealer and have them check it over before doing any serious riding?

 

That bike sure is beautiful!

 

Wow and congrats, welcome to the fun of the vf series.

 

I am very jealous! I just bought an '85 VF750F for $2000 and it is not anywhere close to the condition that one is in! Mine looks very good, but yours is brand new. Mine also has 33500km.

As far as taking it somewhere, I would base that on if the previous owner took care of it or drove it. The one I bought was well maintained and ridden. So I just hopped on and away I went, other than putting brand new EBC pads on (which they are doing atm).

 

Oil to cam issues, thats correct! There is a modification you can do to the bike to recirculate the oil, and it will solve all the problems. The Honda dealership should be able to tell you how to do it. It doesnt cost much at all.

 

everyone covered what I was going to say, but looks sweet! good bike! you came to the right place for information!

 

What a great find. Since the bike is in such great shape and has low miles, you should consider a top-end oiling kit. That would be my first modification.

 

no joke that thing looks awesome it looks like you got it brand spankin new:thumbsup:

 

Sweet ride!

 

Damn nice bike

Hey

That is a nice bike.Well spend money.And welcome to the VF familie

Best regards

Gunnar

 

Nice, I have a Canadian 1985 vf750f also, albeit a little "modified";





I've been working on my 750 for the better part of 10 years now. I spend most of my time on the Yahoo "interceptors" list.

Here's a little "rundown" on my old girl if you're interested;

-1985 vf750f (Canadian model)
-29,000 kms. I found it low mileage many moons back. Bought it because I had a new one in high school (first year, 1983) and have been tinkering with it ever since.
-CBR600F2 front and rear wheels. I stripped them down and painted/polished them to look like the original VF750F wheels. Machined my own spacers, speedo gear and rear drive hub.
-Rear CBRF2 brakes
-front F2 brake rotors
-Stainless steel lines, front and rear
-tossed in a lower temp fan switch (from a Honda Accord IIRC)
-VF1000R oil pump for the increased pressure/flow. It's reputed to be an 18% increase over the stock VF750F unit. I've always had a bit of "trepidation" about tapping the main gallery and pulling off pressure from the mains with the oil modification kits available.This seems a better option to me...
-homemade fender eliminator. I kept the rear frame rails and stock indicators for more of the "original" look. I also use the rails to assist me when "pedaling" the bike backwards (one arm behind and pulling up on the tail makes it easier)
-powder coated frame in original silver (done a full frame off also, just the plastic is waiting for paint)
-VF1000f front forks (I welded up the air balance holes also). 41mm tubes vice the stock vf750f 38mm.
-CBR600F2 rear shock (resprung, revalved). Machined my own adapters for the lower mount.
-Rebuilt stock exhaust with NOS cans from Honda. That was pretty expensive but worth it for the stock appearance...
- center stand is gone. It doesn't reach the ground any more anyways because of the change in suspension heights....

Plans in the shop;

- Hindle 4 into 1 that's currently undergoing R&R, or I may use it as a template. It's pretty beat up...
- Aluminum can for the Hindle. Currently sitting on the shelf.
-VF1000F side covers
- Body work repaint. I have a complete set of NOS Honda stripes and stickers that are going on her when ready. I've got a very good parts guy who hunted them all down for me . I'm toying with the idea of painting the plastics Corvette "atomic orange", bu tit will be done on separate plastics so I can pop the red/white/blue (classic interceptor) back on when I want.
- plan on installing the gold emulators in the VF1000f forks as you did, but time and money is making that a little difficult right now...
-I have a 2005 CBR600RR shock on the way. Going to see if it can be made to work...


But, on to your cam oiling questions;

The cam eating issue was because Honda "cheaped out" when producing the heads on the VF series. Instead of line boring the cam journals/caps, they fitted "3/4" cap cam holders to save money on machining and increase production. This lead to excessive clearances and allowed the cam lobs to beat themselves to death.

The oil modification is a "band aid" for the actual problem, but it is effective.

Honda went through all kinds of "fixes" for the problem. In order from first to last (may be off here an there in the order);

1. Blamed it on owners not allowing the engines to reach operating temp before riding, then switch to blaming owners for letting it overheat in traffic situations (the VF runs HOT in traffic).
2. Revised method of adjusting valves, even produced a special valve tightening wrench, accusing techs of not tightening the vale adjuster nuts properly after service (have one in the toolbox)
3. special cam lifting tool (I actually have one sitting in the tool box) for adjusting valves
4. Retrofitting with new cams with improved cam lob hardening procedures
5. Welding cam end oiling holes shut (on new cams)
6. "New" oiling holes on cam lobe faces for improved oiling
7. revised oil line to the head
8. revised banjo bolts where the lines bolt to the head
9. revised oil lines in the heads
10. change in oiling passages diameters in the head castings
11. Another round of Total cam replacement and special hand matching cam journal caps and cam clearances.

In the end, Honda never officially admitted the problem was the cam journal caps, but they quietly moved to gear driven cams and line boring the cam journals on the 86 VFR series and the wear issues mysteriously disappeared....

Ultimately, none of these procedures could save the brilliant V4 engine from the bad press of early cam issues (one bike mag actaully called them "chocolate cams", LOL) and the v4 quietly slipped into the background to serve the outstanding VFR series in a sport touring role (and eventually the ST series) to this day.

If your Bike is still around and kicking (although 18,000kms is pretty low KM's like my 29,000 km 1985), I'd say it most likely doesn't have the clearance issue and the oil mod is optional for you. Also, being an 85 (like mine) it's probably got all the "official" Honda "fixes" I've listed above (revised passages, lines, bolts, etc).

I've never been a fan of the oil mod myself. It just seems wrong to "steal" pressure away from the main gallery (main bearings, where the pressure is needed) to feed the top end.

I'm not a fan of the stock oiling system in the original VF series either. The top end is fed by a low pressure feed off the transmission case (around 7 psi IIRC). You can follow the line out of the "V" back to just above the LH rear case where the feed is....

Here's what I did;

The 1985 VF1000R has an oil pump with an increased capacity of 18% over the 83-85 VF/F engines, yet the engine is essentially the same as the VF/F series (gear driven cams). The oil pump bolts right up to the VF750F cases and provides an increase in both oil pressure and flow to both the mains and the top end.

However, many people have also done the drill and tap method of providing oil to the top end with the same results as my method.

I may take the best of both worlds and run the lines since I have the VF1000R increased capacity pump installed...

Well, I've probably got you pretty well spun around pretty good, so I'll stop here and let you think about it.

Where are you located?

I'm in BC...

Cheers.

 

Hey

Why just not do booth then the pressure that you take from the main gallery and change the pump.Then you get a more pressure to the heads and you make up the pressure that you will lose.And it is not just to get a pressure.You are also getting more filtered oil for the cams.You can also get a kit that you put on your oil filter from Dave Dogde

Best regards

Gunnar

 

Yup, said all that in my post above except for the kit from Dave. He offers both the oil filter adapter and the "drill and tap" kits if I recall....

Actually, If I remember an old conversation with Dave correctly, I believe he thinks blocking off the oil line in the transmission (the feed for the heads) increases the main gallery pressure slightly. I think it was 2 psi of something like that. So it's possible the pressure drop on the mains may all be a moot point with the drill and tap method....

Cheers.

 

Okay,didn´t see that you had wrote that when I read your text.That is good to hear about the pressure because I am putting drill and tap kit tomorrow so I was pretty when you said that.But now I feel up to it :thumbsup:.

Best regards

Gunnar

 

My bike just turned over 40,000 kms. How would I know if it has a cam problem? How would I know if any of these "fixes" have been applied? I'm not a mechanic - I can do regular maintenance on my bike but tearing an engine apart is not my thing lol.

 

Hey

Just read what Greatwhite wrote here above.I don´t know if it is problem in my bike but I am still setting oil kit in it tomorrow.You can get 2 kind of oil kit that I know off.That is Drill and tap kit then there is the oil filter (Honda V-4 top end oil kit expensive).Here is the site: Dave Dodge - Oil Mod Honda V4 . Then press onHow to install, download 935 kb Zip-file here) at top of the page then you can see also the drill and tap.

Best regards

Gunnar

 

There's a couple generic indicators of cams going south. Some are;

1. excessive valve train noise. Don't panic if you hear the valves though, they may just need adjusting.

2. Power "drop off". As the cams beat themselves to death, the bike looses power. This is usually just a slow power drop off and not really noticeable. Again, don't panic. Bikes that had cam issues were pretty much all driven into the dealerships to have the cam work done. It was most often picked up on valve adjustment servicing, but as it became a more commonly known issue owners started bringing their bikes in whenever they felt anything. Since it was warranty work, most dealers just swapped the stuff out and billed corporate. Yes, they may be going bad, but the bike isn't going to "explode" underneath you. If it does "explode", it's not the cams :wink:

3. Rough or poor running. As the cams wear away, the bike begins to run poorly. Any number of things can indicate this from poor throttle response to straight up rough running.

4. Visual inspection. The cam's typically "rock" in the cam journals due to excessive clearances in bikes that are effected. This tends to destroy the edges of the cam lobes first. This usually tears up the running surface on the follower, which tears up the cam lob, which tears up the follower more, which...well...you probably get the idea. Pitting, scoring and wear are evident to a trained eye.

Now, that said, there's no need to panic if you have symptoms 1-3. Any number of things can cause these issues from carbs out of synch, ignition issues, contaminated gas, clogged filters and up to the "dreaded cam issue". If you think you've got cams going south, you need to make sure the rest of the bike is running right. Of course, if you take the valve covers off and the lobes are beat to heck............well............

"Fixes"? Well, I'm not sure if I'd worry to much if they were incorporated or not as the real issue was poor assembly techniques and cost cutting at the design/manufacture phase. But;

The new banjo bolts are triangular in shape in the shaft IIRC (or were the old ones triangular? so long ago...memory fades...)

Oil lines? Doubtful you'll see part numbers. I don't think there's any visual difference. The "new" lines were mostly to clean up sloppy welds obstructing the internal passages IIRC (again, so long ago.....)

Passages in the heads? Not sure how you would check that....we're talking thousands of an inch.....

The cam shafts are visable with the rocker covers off. You can see the oiling hole in the base circle of the cam, as well as the closed off end holes if the cams are the newer style. When you do your next valve adjustment, just have a look, also look at the lobes if you have any worries.

Personally, I wouldn't bother taking stuff apart if the bike is running right. Especially if it already has 40,000 on it and running well.

The oiling kit might be a good idea if you intend to keep the bike a long time, but I wouldn't panic and run out to the garage right away to do it.

Think of it more as "added insurance" for a bike that is running well.....

 

Very helpful ... thanks guys!

 

Ahha!

I knew I remembered reading this somewhere. Here's a link to some info from Dave Dodge on the issue and the fix:

Explanation of top end oiling problem

As Dave has more experience than I'll ever have with the V4 series engines, I'll defer to his expert opinion on the matter.

Here's a bit of useful info also:

http://www.honda-v4.com/sabmag/bigert/dd-oilpipes.htm

 

Thank you all for your suggestions.

The "Honda Fixes" may have been already taken care of.
Since it has real low mileage I shouldn't worry about it now.

Whatever the case, I don't think I can keep this bike as my insurance company is going to charge nearly $1000 per year to insure this.

Three reasons:
1. I sold my last bike back in '95 and haven't been insured with a motorcycle since then so they classify me as a new driver;
2. it's a 750;
3. it's a sport bike.

Here in Ontario those are all red flags for jacking up insurance premiums.

I should've bought a Honda CBR125 or an old Honda Rebel!

Maybe I should find an online forum for Canadian bikers on suggestions on finding cheaper bike insurance before I decide to sell. I haven't even ridden the damn thing yet!