Fuel pump not "primering"

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by amaromi, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. amaromi

    amaromi New Member

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    My fuel pump works. I used to be able to hear my fuel pump "prime" the carbs when I turn the key but not now. The only change I can see that would effect this is replacing the starter relay switch. I had to "jump" the fuel pump when I ran out of gas after filling up again.
    Bad fuel relay switch? I am getting voltage to the black wire(Black, White, Blue)
    I have continuity from the blue wire ignition spark unit to the blue wire on the fuel relay switch. I take a jumper wire from those two points and I hear the pump work but it won't stay working when I turn off the ignition I have to re-jump those points..
    I can reconnect that wire and it will pump it is like that point needs a pulse signal. But like I said if i leave the wire connected it doesn't act like it should. Any ideas how to make this work right?
    BTW this is where the manual says to check.
     


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  2. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    So you're already using a jumper wire to bypass the relay, right?? If not consider it.

    And you're getting power, right??

    So either the carbs are full and the pump won't pump any more or the pump's knackered, right??

    You might check the movable contact points inside the black top cover and (very carefully) clean as needed.
     


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  3. amaromi

    amaromi New Member

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    I don't I still have the relay the way it is supposed to be. If I do that what would be the purpose of having a relay switch anyways? That might be a easy fix, because like you said the fuel pump stops pumping when the carbs are full. So what controls that few seconds of the pump running when the bike starts, the fuel relay?

    Power? to the blue wire? Yes.
    I ran out of gas one time and I had to jump the relay to get fuel in there, the system didn't do itself. That is the problem I am trying to resolve.
    I looks crystal clean, I checked that two weeks ago. I was having issues on the highway so I thought it was the pump, but it was the rust in my tank (which is now cleans and lined)
     


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  4. dizzy

    dizzy New Member

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    A couple points I can make. The pump circuit is designed to only pump fuel, as needed by the carbs of course, but also only when the engine is producing spark. The spark is the signal needed to trigger the relay to close and supply VDC to your fuel pump. So no spark, no pump.

    On some models...and it doesn't seem to work all the time...the relay is also wired into the 'check' function on your warning lights (notice how the warning lights on your gauge come on briefly when you key the ignition and then go out?). So at that same time a BRIEF signal is sent to the relay to close...so if your carbs are dry, a bit of fuel is pumped to make dry starting easier, otherwise you gotta spin the engine over some time to allow the carbs to fill.

    This fuel pump circuit is a little 'funky' to troubleshoot sometimes because the other thing I've noticed is the cut relay seems to consume a lot of voltage...so even when things are working correctly you got more like 4-7VDC to your pump itself, not the full 12 battery VDC. So...sometimes if a pump is borderline failing...it will work OK when jumped directly to the battery...but will be a weak or intermittent when you run the cut relay circuit 'as designed'.

    Squirrel's suggestion is a good idea for troubleshooting this circuit...some people choose to eliminate the relay all together and just run the pump full battery all the time. The other thing I do to troubleshoot is disconnect the fuel line from the carbs and run it directly to a container...to eliminate the confusion of wet or dry carbs. In addition...carbs requirement for fuel is small and sometimes allowing the pump to work full blast for 30 seconds or so will allow you to see the pump is not working constistently, as it should.
     


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  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    I have bypassed the relay on all my Hondas for the last 20 years......after the first relay failure.

    I've grown to be reassured by hearing the trusty click-click-click-click when i turn the key to ON, and the bike starts easier too.
     


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  6. amaromi

    amaromi New Member

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    perfect I will do that then. Do you physically remove the relay and then jump the black and white wires? or do you leave it in and jump those two wires via the harnesss connector.
     


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  7. dizzy

    dizzy New Member

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    Doesn't matter what you do with the relay, unplug the connector. One wire will be battery voltage with the key on, one other wire will go directly to the fuel pump...figure out which two those are and make the connection. Permanent I'd just cut and solder...for troubleshooting a paper clip with electric tape usually works.

    Of the (usually) two wires left one goes to ignition and should be protected from grounding...The last one will be solid green and with Honda that's always ground (doesn't matter what happens to this wire).
     


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