neutral to first

Cutting right to the chase...

I've been noticing (mostly after riding for a bit and the bike is good and warm) that sometimes my bike does not like to go into first from neutral. All other gear shifts feel fine. How normal might this be? How much force should I be using? I'm new to this bike (and bikes in general) and I don't know if I should be trying to shift like I'm wrestling with a semi gearbox or if it should be effortless like an Indy car.

thanks,
jason

 

What are you experiencing in downshifts from 2nd to 1st ?

Cold oil has a higher viscosity than warm oil. Since both the tranny and the clutch use the same oil this could be a factor.

From neutral to first warm or cold there will be sort of a clunk. One remedy is to roll the bike foward shifting into first while the bike is in motion. Also try double clutching.

 

Don't pussy foot it, shift neutral to first quickly and sharply. Also, make sure your idle RPM is nice and low. Maybe bleed the clutch - a cheap and easy way to make sure there is no air in the system keeping it from not fully disengaging

 

also, fresh oil (perhaps a different brand than you currently use) works wonders. Dont want to start an oil thread, there are plenty.

 

I would flush the clutch fluid and bleed the system well.

 

Is this a new bike??? If so, the occasional stubborn shift from N to 1st should clear itself up by the time you hit 700 miles.

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

1st off its an '86 750 w/41k now. I shoulda mentioned that. Brain lapse, as there are several models within this forum...

I bought the bike a little over a month ago (from a local dealer) and they told me they did a major service, and a bunch of other stuff to prep it to sell (the dealer is reputable and thus far have no reason to believe they are jerkin me around). I've put about a 1000 miles since purchase, so I don't think it needs an oil change, but maybe it does as I'm starting to have issues.

To address Badbilly, sometimes I feel the clunk from 2nd to 1st, sometimes I don't (I'm thinking less noticeable when warm). I did notice today after riding that revving the engine a bit helps get it into gear from neutral.

I think my first step is to change the oil, and bleed the system as you all have suggested.

Again thanks for the advice.

 

That's pretty common for the older bikes. Even the newer ones do it. There's something called the "Honda clunk", that's the cer-chunk sound when going into first from neutral. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

I agree some clunk is normal, however you shouldn't have to use excessive force. Sometimes it helps to roll the bike either direction even a few inches while you're trying to shift. In addition to the things mentioned, such as too high idle and a spongy hydraulics, I can think of a few others I've come across. Check the little brass bushing in your clutch lever...I've seen them wear out, through, and even disappear all together...causing excessive play so you don't get a 'full' stroke on your lever. I've also seen those thick grips with the chrome ends interfere with a complete clutch pull. Beyond that you may want to look to the clutch plates and springs. They may not be wore out per se...but wanting to stick together when they're supposed to slip. The only fix I've found for that was to replace 'em.

 

I noticed a smiliar problem when I switched to Lucas Semi-Synthetic Oil. Since switching back, i don't feel like I need to shift as hard. But it could all be in my head.

 

I know this thread is old, but just for future reference... I asked some guys at my shop and they said syncros, and that lots of bikes do this. The resolution that I think works well is when it won't go into first is to roll slightly forward, or backward, and it slips into gear.

 

I never drove an indy car just F1 try pumping clutch maybe you have low fluid level or are you pulling clutch in to handle bar?or clutch is on the way out all bikes do this now and then but if everytime check those things first..

 

M/C Shifting
Let's start with something easier.... You are in 3rd gear going for 4th.....before you shift pressurize the clutch and shifter at the same time (which means pull the clutch in to where you feel tension, but haven't actually disengadged.....at the same time you are trying to lift the shifter with your toe without actually shifting yet)....once you have these two items pressurized.... then do a follow though with both....without using a hand full of clutch (just a short brief pull)....and you are in 4th....

Now to go from 4th to 3rd.......It's got all the same moves....except you need to give it a little throttle first.....Don't try to do a down "speed shift" till you get this part perfected ..... once you learn this they all side in without a sound.........I had two BMW's that are known for clunking....even they are quite shifting properly........Now to go into 1st gear from 2nd 2000 rpm.....or from sitting in neutral to 1st, let the clutch out just a "scosh"(what you're trying to do here is get the clutch plates moving)so the cogs will catch, when it doesn't, it's because one tooth is meeting on top of another tooth........ Monk

P.S. I went though the same thing when I started riding ........Back in 1965...LOL

Also shifting gears in a semi is also a art form, they're not jamed either. Retired semi driver

 

If you have ever seen the engineering marvel that is the stock Honda shift detent arm, you will understand what all the stubborn shifting and clunking is about.

 

Since your bike is older and has high mileage, there could of course be a mechanical problem. That said, every motorcycle I've owned (2002 Honda CB750, 2007 BMW K1200 GT, 2007 VFR) will occasionally briefly 'refuse' to shift either into neutral from 1st or 2nd gear, or from N to 1st gear, or perhaps both. This quirk may occur at most any time, regardless of the operating temperature of the motorcycle.

What I'm describing here (which may or may not be the explanation of your bike's issue) is really quite common, even with newer motorcycles, and most anyone who rides is very familiar with this occasional quirk. I don't know the mechanical reasons behind it, but it seems to be in the nature of the beast since most motorcycles do this from time to time, and it is usually nothing to worry about.

So, you're thinking, what do we do when this happens? Well, there are a number of common and usually effective tricks to correct this momentary stubbornness on the part of the gear box, some of which have already been described in this thread. At any rate, if the bike won't go into N, or it won't go into gear from N, don't just keep stomping on the gear shift because that's usually ineffective and will usually get you nowhere other than becoming frustrated.

I'm too lazy to attempt to begin describing the little tricks I've learned in this regard, so I will leave it to other more knowledgeable members to hopefully chime in.

One thing that I would suggest though is that while riding, try to get into the habit of always sequentially (without missing any gears) downshifting all the way to 1st gear (pulling and releasing the clutch in order to briefly engage each gear) before you come to a complete stop.

If you instead suddenly need to come to a stop but in doing so you go from a higher gear, let's say 3rd gear, and you simply pull in the clutch and then you find yourself stopped but the bike is still in 3rd gear because you've skipped gears due to not properly and sequentially downshifting, this is an invitation to the bike momentarily refusing to drop down into a lower gear, or N, as you then try to shift the tranny into N or 1st gear while you're stopped.

 

There are no motorcycles that I know that have synchros. Motorcycles have constant mesh gearboxes that are very compact, unlike cars which are big and bulky and have room for such luxuries like synchronizers.

I'd find a new shop!

 

In the shop's defense, I don't know if they said synchros. Synchros sounded wrong to me, but I'm still new to bikes and my mechanical vocab could be stronger. The exchange took place a few months ago, and I don't remember what he actually said... synchros was only word that made sense conceptually.

Anyways, thanks for all the feedback. Its nice to be a member on a board where quality discussions take place.

 

JD is correct, sychro's are an auto manual tranny thing. Bikes rely on 'dogs' on the gear sides to lock into gear. I suppose you could say conceptually that they need to be sychronized in order to complete the shift.

Motorcycle trans rely on the shafts being spinning to work well. If when you stop the pertinent dogs don't match properly, it's going to be hard to make the neutral shift. That's why rolling the bike helps.