Intermediate Newbie And A VFR?

Hey guys,

So, I owned an SV650S as my first bike for a couple of months and put 1,000 miles under it (mostly highway/streets) and then totalled it in Bear Mountain State Park in NY. I would have to say the main cause was not because of me not being handle the bike, but riding out of my skill range by trying to follow my friend with 15,000 miles under his belt. (Yeah, first rule of MSF is not to do that...)

What do you guys think about a VFR800 for me? It's 100lbs heavier than the SV650S with 20 more HP and 10 more lbs of torque. I've read that it's pretty stable and fairly forgiving. It seems that the biggest difference weight would have is during low speed maneuvering. I'm not a squiddy person (or at least I'd like to think so) with a fairly level head and throttle hand.

Thanks,
Glenn

 

No matter what you ride seat time is everything!

 

Sooooo, you're asking VFR dudes if they like VFR's ? :crazy::welcome:To our world:canada: We're gonna suck you in and shame you into buying one if you aren't careful.... BTW , red 03 for sale here:thumbsup:

 

I like the term "intermediate newbie". I guess there are different levels of newbies starting from "newborn newbie" to "advanced newbie". Just curious, how do you determine those different newbie levels? Does an advanced newbie mean that they can make a U-turn without having to stop and reverse?

 

Hi, sorry to hear about your crash! As much as I would love to say go and get a VFR I don't feel like I can recommend it to you.

At the risk of sounding like your mum lecturing you, with just 1000 miles under your belt, there is still a lot to learn (even those of use who have done 10's of thousands of miles are still learning every time we go out for a ride).

There is a world of difference between the VFR and the SV. The figures don't sound that different but the end result is a massive difference in capability. Personally I would suggest that you stick with a 600 until you have a little more experience (perhaps another 10K miles). I would recommend a Hornet if you are interested in a Honda, they're plenty quick enough and are a lot more forgiving if you get it wrong!

The problem with the VFR (if you can call it a problem) is that it is deceptively quick. Many times after upgrading from my Hornet (put 15K miles on her before getting the viffer) I completely underestimated my speed and was surprised to find I was travelling 20-30mph faster than I would have guessed. I think this comes from how linear the power delivery is with the VFR, but combine this with your relative inexperience and it could spell a recipe for disaster.

All this said - if you find yourself in the process of buying a supersport 600 like the CBR, then forget it and get the VFR instead - it's a proper bike! Anyway, best of luck with finding your next pride and joy - and ride in front of your mate next time, that way you wont ever feel under pressure to keep up!

 

Amen to that! I have a buddy who's been riding for years and when he got to ride my bike he says it's like a cadillac compared to some of the naked/sport bikes he rides. There's a empty road that he'll go on sometimes and when he got on that with my bike he said he got it up to 130 and didn't even realize he was going that fast.

That said, a 600cc or even a 500cc bike is the best bet for you. And make sure to ride alone as much as you can to avoid the peer pressure. 15K miles is nothing, hell I put in over 20K on my bike the first year I had it. I can hardly call myself valentino rossi material from that.

 

+1 to avoiding peer pressure, and sticking with a smaller, lighter bike for a while. That extra 100 lbs. can be intimidating, especially when you're doing slow speed stuff like U-turns and stoplights etc. The SV is a great bike, not just for beginners at all; I had a friend who raced successfully in Supersport and his favorite bike was his SV. Hornet is the same way, from what I hear. I think it's called a CB600F and/or 599 here in the States.

I don't mean to be discouraging at all. You obviously have a refined taste or you wouldn't even be asking the question. I'm just thinking back to when I was 1000 miles in, and what made it fun. A lightweight bike that's easy to work on (read, no fairings) and comfortable, that's the ticket.

 

Welcome!

Keep riding the SV or something similar for a couple of years. The VFR is not a beginners bike. No matter what you ride, be more careful, unless you want to get hurt or die.

Regards,
H.C.D.

 

Hey Glenn, welcome to the forum. You are wise to think carefully about this and to ask others' opinions. If you don't mind us asking, how old are you? What do you want out of motorcycling?
In general, I'd probably lean towards what most are saying here...stick with a smaller less powerful bike for awhile longer. But, quite a few people have successfully switched to a large powerful machine and been ok. Those people usually have a combo of inate skill and SELF RESTRAINT. But why not take the time and move up the ladder slowly? Especially if you are young, there is time to learn and have the fun of different bikes.
Naturally all of us here feel the VFR is a fine bike. But, they'll be around for awhile.
P.S.
Harriman State Park...the Bear Mountain area...all very cool places. I miss that!

 

Oh sorry you wrecked your SV chopstick. I had an SV put - 30k on it. It was a great bike. I don't think my VFR is any harder to ride, except at real slow speeds like in parking lots etc. You didn't mention how big you are, but unless your Dani Pedrosa sized I wouldn't worry about that too much. Take the MSF course. Seriously. I didn't but friends did and they learned quickly what took me years. Don't try to keep up with people that have more experience than you. That's a recipe for disaster as you found out the hard way. The VFR does have more power and weight etc, but an SV can accelerate quick enough to hurt yourself on also. Doesn't matter that much that a VFR can go 150 and an SV can go only 130...Stay within your limits, not the bikes.

 

After reading more of the responses posted here, and thinking about it a bit more, I'll have to say that it probably would be better to get another SV or an Ninja 650 or something like that. I felt completely comfortable from the first second on my VFR but I've been riding since I was six (Honda Minitrail) and progressed from there. I'm 41 now. I sold my SV to a female friend who's first bike was a Hawk GT, similar to the SV. She took the MSF class before she ever even started the Hawk. Today she's an excellent rider, who never comes close to exceeding her capabilities which are considerable. One thing I'd like to add is don't let anyone talk you into a 600SS (R6/CBR/GSXR/ZX6) or anything like that. Those bikes just beg to pushed way beyond your limits.

 

My suggestion would be to evaluate what type of riding you want to do. If you want to ride the hills exclusively, go with another SV or similar. If you're thinking of longer, multi-day rides or taking a passenger, go with the VFR. Riding safely all comes down to what's between your ears and the right wrist. Whichever bike you get I'd recommend a track day class, they're great for learning how to ride safely.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this but you can get in trouble on any motorcycle your riding if you don't stay within your limits. That being said my 04 VFR is my first bike. I stuck to the parking lots until I felt comfortable with the slow stuff and then hit the less busy roads. I'm no riding expert but I've survived my first 10000 miles without laying the bike down because I always respect the bike. I couldn't imagine owning a different bike. It is going to be more expensive than most if you drop it but I say go with what your most comfortable with.:biggrin:

 

Ah, funny you are thinking about making the same move I just made. That being said, I put about 5k miles on my SV and I have alot of prior dirt bike experience. The SV is the first street bike I owned and now i'm moving to the VFR.

From what you posted, I would probably suggest sticking with the SV or a similar bike. They are absolutley great bikes and I certainly see myself owning another SV in the future. Especially the 09's, they look great! I moved up to the VFR becuase I take a lot of long trips, so i want the comfort, and right now I am interested in something with a little more power. From your post, you didn't mention that you were looking for either of these things...

I'm personally also very confident in my riding ability (and self-control) and I spent a good piece of last summer on a Suzuki B-King (naked Hayabusa, 1300cc sport bike). I've never crashed a bike or even had close calls for that matter, so that makes the decision to move up a little easier for me.

For you I don't see a reason to move up. You don't seem to think the sv is underpowered and you didn't complain about comfort, right? And the extra 100 lbs can be a lot. Most accidents happen at slow speeds, when the bike is most unstable. I also believe the HP difference is closer to 30....

I'll have a more accurate opinion once I actually ride my VFR, but for now I guess I would ask why you want to move up? and how confident are you? oh also, how big are you?

Accidents happen to the best of riders, so don't feel bad about that. And don't underestimate the SV, it's an amazing bike. I don't want to discourage you from getting a VFR, as I would love to see this community grow, but a big piece of enjoying motorcycling is having the right bike.

 

Hi Glenn,

First of all, you as a new rider are to be commended for first seeking advice rather than just impulsively buying a VFR.

A common mistake among many new riders is to buy too much bike, too soon. (Been there, done that.) Totalling a smaller bike after only 1000 miles should convince you that you're not yet ready for a more powerful and heavier motorcycle. This is nothing to be ashamed of-- you've learned some valuable lessons in a very short time, and you luckily survived the crash and were able to walk away. You have a guardian angel on your shoulder, listen to her.

You also learned firsthand, and the hard way at that, that attempting to ride with another so soon is an invitation to becoming distracted by the other rider(s). Bad idea. Ride by yourself until you have a couple of seasons under your belt.

Another useful rule-of-thumb about riding with another motorcyclist, particularly a more "experienced" rider, is that you must always "ride your own ride." This means that you must not try to keep up with, or compete in any way. Instead, you ride your own ride, at a pace that is well within your limits.

That said, shame on your friend for not being mature enough, wise enough, and considerate enough to take it easy with you, rather than playing a game of "Let's see if you can keep up with me, Grasshopper" with a new rider who has only 1000 miles of seat-time.

Yes, it was very unwise for you to try to keep up with him, and it was also unwise to attempt to ride with another rider so soon, but you didn't know any better at the time, while he should've known better. Moreover, your friend should've been riding behind you, not in front of you. New and less experienced riders should always be in front, while the more experienced rider(s) follow behind you at a safe distance, keeping a watchful eye in case you have any problems. There should be no sense of your needing to impress anyone. Again, ride your own ride.

When riding alone (and learning) on twisty roads that are popular among motorcyclists and cagers alike, sooner or later you will encounter aggressive and rude motorists who may ride up on your ass and want you to go faster or else get the f*ck out of their way. When this occurs, don't fixate on your mirrors; keep your head up, your eyes looking forward, and don't be intimidated into giving up your piece of the road until you can safely let them by (or they just decide to quickly blow by you by crossing a double-yellow line.)

Likewise, as you become more skilled and experienced as a rider, you will inevitably find yourself trailing behind slower traffic that's going much too slow as far as your concerned. Before you get all pissed off and find yourself itching to pass them, think back to your earlier days, and don't act and ride like a douche bag. Ride with courtesy and integrity. Share the road, and be a safe and responsible rider. If you find yourself behind a caravan of lumbering Harleys, or campers and minivans, pull off the road at the next roadside stop, stretch your legs, take a break, and get back on the road later, when it's more likely to be less congested. Why get your shorts in a twist? Relax, you're out there to learn and have safe fun, rather than to maim or kill yourself or others.

Glenn, you might wanna have a look at a used Yamaha FZ6 as a good learner bike. It offers a more upright body posture, its relatively light (wet weight is ~460 lbs.) and it has a buttery smooth 600cc inline 4 cylinder engine.

 

Very good post there RedRover5683 :thumbsup:

I got to add one more note since this is a topic close to me, after all, my VFR is the first bike I ever had. By the way I've logged nearly 27K miles since Sept 07 with only incident being that I dropped my bike while filling up the front tire with air. (Never do that when bike is on side stand!)

One difficult thing I have to say about learning to ride a bike is to gauge whether you're getting in over your head or not. It's not like you can use concrete terms and metrics, e.g. must always maintain X miles per hour in a X degree curve.

This might help but what works for me is to just use your gut feeling. You must never feel scared or like you're about to jump off a cliff. You must always feel like you're in control... think about it, most accidents aren't really from going too fast but from losing control.

That, and do things in baby steps, and constantly rehearse in your head. It comes naturally to me because I love motorcycling and I want to be the best rider I can.

For example, say you're a little scared of doing fast curves. What you can do is go at a speed that you're comfortable with. Take note of how the bike handles and how to react. Then next time go to that same curve at a slightly higher rate of speed, say 5 mph faster. It's not much but the main idea is that you're still in control and that you're just going a little further and you can always slow down if you're feeling scared.

Take your time.... remember you can always ride again tomorrow but if you push it you may not ride again ever.

 

As a returning rider from a 10 year hiatus, this is great advice! I too have been thinking of the VFR as a replacement for my ninja 650R, but the weight gain concerns me. I have 6000 miles on this bike, it's been fun but there is a desire for something different. Where in the RPM range is a late 6th gen happy? I would think you have to shave off speed much earlier in the corners.

 

Newbie to VFR

Hi all,
I'm a Newbie to the VFR World, anticipating a 99 VFR purchase this weekend.
Long time New York based rider - 40+ yrs.
I ride trials, dirt & dual-sport, and lots o' long-distance sport touring.

I wanted to introduce ma'self, and reach out to the VFR knowledge base,
as to the experiences with the 99 VFR.
Are there any common issues with this year (or any) VFR I need to take note ?

I own/ride a '91 ST1100 for 17 yrs now,
and have been an owner's club member since '95, (STOC#913).
They've been an invaluable wealth of info and helped keep my STeed out of mechanical harms way over the yrs.
I do all my own work, and have performed some heavy duty modifications to the bike.
It has won "Most Modified ST" at two events - its a really nice ride.
I'm keeping the ST, and simply adding the VFR to the stable.

So, what should I look out for with the 99 VFR ? Any words of advice ?
I appreciate any words-of-wisdom any kind soul(s) would gift me !
thanx all...you look like a great group !

vincent
Suffern NY
91 ST1100, 2005 Gas Gas TXT200Pro, Yamaha XT225, Honda XR400R