Is Harley D going???

It was on AutoBlog a few times. They waited for the US decision and then "matched" a portion of the bailout.

 

We did not whant them to make cuts at those plants.
Part of the us bail out i am sure was to protect us plants and if cuts where to be made gm would cut them outside the us.

By matching the bailout they have insentive to keep jobs here as well.

We where sort of forced.

does not mean i support the bail out btw.

 

Stuka:

I’m a bit confused as to why you would think I would want to argue with you about what you just posted.

I actually was about to put a “thanks” under what you said. You nailed it brother.

I hate the “we build it, you buy it” philosophy, the UAW union has failed to change and adapt with the times and, believe it or not, HD going under would be a bit sad.

But it’s simple, if a business fails to adapt with the times, tough luck IMO. That’s the risk of business and capitalism. The big 3 gambled on SUV’s. HD gambled on Baby Boomers returning to riding who had or borrowed disposable income. Well sooner or later that well will dry up, and if you don’t have a back up plan then reap the whirlwind fellas.

I guess we need to kiss, make up and have a beer together Stuka:cheersaf:

BZ

 

Well said. ~mike

 

also- Clarification- Ford was not part of the bail out.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not a big pro bail out. I'm 110% pro capitalism and I have feelings that make me believe that government interference with the private sector is a bad thing(if I didn't I would move my happy ass to Cuba. But hey you don't see anyone jump on a stick boat and pushing off coast and heading to Cuba!). Unfortunately, I don't think we don't have choice in this matter. Like Stuka said, there are too many repercussions that will occur that I believe we can't have at this point. But we must also knew that in alot these cases it's not just how they conducted business that was their down fall. But also how banking has been completely screwed up for the past year. GM has GMAC and they not only finance cars but also home loans. You know they have gotten screwed big time with the busting of the bubble. No way they could have foreseen the fall. We all knew it was going to happen but not when or how or by how much. I bought my house last year out of forecloser. Two years prior to that the house sold for $584k and the loan was defaulted. I bought it at $325k. The bank took a complete bath on that property! And believe or not GM was wrapped up tight in that market. Chrysler on the other hand has been a sinking ship for over 30yrs. It is the common thought that they will not serve this last fight. GM needs to make some big changes or they will become the next sinking ship.

 

Side note: Porn industry is also seeking a bail out. Saw that in the news a while back and maybe it has been covered already too.

Bail outs should never have been started, capitalism gives you the right to succeed and the right to FAIL. Ingenuity will prevail...

 

pron has not chance with all the free content on the interwebs.

I totally agree that bail outs are a shitty plan. Our country needs to be proactive instead of reactive. But how much of an effect do you think we would endure if let's say GM takes a dump and all of its assets are frozen and then liquidated? It's just not the right time for something like that to happen in this country.

 

I think you might be right why not get a free hand out
Harley has 50% of MC market if they truly are going down the tube then i think they need some new management or @ the very least a new business plan. It would be a shame if all those people lost their jobs over piss poor management.

 

surprisingly they do manufacture cars up here LOL . if those plants close a lot of jobs would be lost in Quebec and Ontario. Just like the US bail out its really about jobs.

 

Yea I knew GM had plants up there. My old 2002 Chevy Camaro Z28 SS was made in Canada! I just didn't know that Canada threw money their way.

 

Yep. We made the Bricklin SV-1. I told you Chomp, you're a shit disturber.

Maybe HD might not be facing this situation if they produced a marketable product (and I am not saying they do not) at a marketable price. Here I do say they do not.

While it would be sad to see Nortel fail, it is a fact, that this is not the first time they were about to cross that line. Nortel faced a very uncertain future a few years back.

It is a ballancing act. Part of me says, why spend my tax money bailing out someone else's failure. But as a society, we MUST look out for each other. Hundreds of thousands of people, not just in Canada and the US, are faced with the real possibility of financial disaster. However, many of these people are authors of their own woes. I just can't imagine someone re-financing their and their family's home to purchase some toys, be they bikes, boats or Batmobiles for that matter.

A side bar here. Unions were mentioned and I think some were off base. I am not neccessarily a pro union person but I am a Union brother. I was a Job Steward until I resigned that position due to matters I wil not get into here and now.

True Unionizm is a good thing. Basicall you should get paid for the work you agree to do. Both these are covered under the Collective Agreement. Union people agree to do certain work. For doing this certain work, they are paid a certain wage. What I see extremely frequently is abuse of things by people who belong to the union. They DO NOT, follow the Collective Agreement that their union and their management have hammered out. They abuse sick time. They abuse coffee break and meal break times. They leave early and come in late. Most of the time, nothing is said and or done. If management teams choose to follow the Collective Agreements to the letter, which they have every right to do, then many union brothers and sisters are going to take a hard fall. Some will bounce back up with only a bruise. Some will not get up. Unions are not the end all for everyone. They have hteir place. Union brothers and sisters do however need to take a hard look at themselves in the mirror and ask, "Am I doing what I am paid to do?" If they cannot answer "Yes" then they need to fix it.

Back to HD and Chompers shit disturbing ways, I could care less if they went under. I don't like them. I don't like thier noise and a substantial number of thier riders' attitudes as has been pointed out here. But for the sake of those who work there, I hope something happens somewhere that will ensure they are able to secure fanancial stability for themselves in the near future, as with all the other company employees who may find themselves in questionable positions.

Peace be with you all, even Chomper:kiss::makeout::soapbox:

Randy's Rant strikes again

 

My old '99 was built in Canada too!

 

everyone else gets one I guess they will too..

 

Ok, my turn, here's an opinion right from the horses mouth guys !
First a little background.
i've been in unions for32 yrs. now. I'm a steamfitter by trade. I spent the first 15 years in construction, the last 17 in Ford Motor Co. Let me first say that unions definitely are needed and definitely are abused. i'm in a bit of a grey area right now because I'm caught between management and hourly as a leader of a trades crew. Some of you may have preconceived notions of how you believe autoworkers behave and granted in certain cases , you're right but that's not a majority issue. You've no doubt heard the term "the squeaky wheel gets the oil", well this holds true here as well. Alot of what you hear comes from whining little bitches who don't believe in doing a fair days work for a fair days pay. these are the ones you hear on TV and in the news , these arew the ones who need to grow up and step up or step off, there's alot of people who'd give their left nut for these jobs. You don't hear from the guy who goes in on time, does what needs to be done to keep the machines going, takes his breaks and lunch on time and goes home on time. He doesn't bitch because he knows he's got a good job and if he performs, no one gives him any grief. Therefore , no issue.
On the other hand, we've got guys who miss more time than they are there, get high at work and wreck equipment and basically don't give 4/5ths of a flying fuck what goes on around them and guess what? You can't fire me dickhead, I'm in da union!!! That mentality has got to go..... You don't wanna work for a living, piss off and let some work who cares about their job and wants to see their company prosper, they win , we all win.
This past june we eskimos up here voted on the C.O.A., Canadian operating agreement, we saw tough times coming in advance and tried to adapt to that at Ford. we gave up some sick time , vacation time, benefits , took a three year wage freeze, etc. in the hope that it would help our situation, we amalgamated our trades and are currently being retrained to make us more effective and knowledgable.
This is the reason Ford is trying to stay out of the "bailout" scenario. It is only a last chance hand up not hand out. Also realize that alot of this mess is due to our governments killing the autopact and letting the foreign car makers dump their "government subsidized' cars here. That's right , their government hands them loads of cash to try and dominate the market, buy up the ailing competition and then scrap those companies, they are very good at it as any tool and die people will testify to. Look no further than Walmart and all the chinese crap they spew out at ridiculously low prices.
There I feel better, but here's the point. Everyone wants to jump on the bailout band wagon, but itshouldn't be a "no strings" bailout, how about a "line of credit" , sort of a helping hand in tough times kind of thing. You need some breathing room to restructure and get lean and mean, no sweat, you want a handout because you're fat , lazy and complacent, tough shit.
Sorry , but that's life, no work = no pay.
And now, I have vented.
P.S. Just so you know randy, I'm going to go fry up some walleye now,:cheersaf:

 

I asked Lgn to marry me a while ago. He's too late. Will you marry me?:kiss:

Seems you are in the same boat as I union wise. I am a work leader, unionized first level supervision I suppose. And you hit the nail right on the head about time abuses. But you also noted that these were person specific and not all are painted with the same brush. We have many very good workers in our environmnet. And we have several slouches too. But the time is coming, and all our union brotheren need to be aware, that they too have to follow the Collective Bargaining Agreement. We are not fireproof. All it takes is a manager to be thorough and factual. Then the slouch is gone. And you know what. Good riddens. I am paid to report slouches to my manager. Cross me too often, make my job more difficult, then guess what? That is in my Memorandum of Understanding which is aprt of our CBA.

Now back to HD. Put out a good product at a reasonable price, them maybe...just maybe, you would not find yourself in this position.

Oh and PS Shooter. Been a GM man all my life. Dad was a fordie.

 

How can Harley be going broke?? they have close to 50% of MC market. IMO their bikes are over priced and yet they still have largest market share i would say there just looking for a free hand out or there masters of mismanagement

 

Common disbelieve that times like this make money for those that didn't have it to start with. Through anytime period in which this country that has been through a downturn economically one that the remains the most common is the rich stay rich and poor stay poor. Not too many people in the middle make it up to the upper class at any point but in slow or poor times the key is to keep the middle for dipping into the lower class. As for the upper class in these times, their money's will just trade hands. Sort of a redistribution of wealth. But the key is that you have to have some sort of capital and be willing to not make anything for a while. I mean think about if you had capital availible to start buying up foreclosed properties. And also remember that we are not only talking about residential property but commercial properties. In my neck of the woods cash is king and if you have it the world is yours. No more credit to buy. If you have the cash a bank is willing to hand over properties. Take a listing that is on the current market for 150K. If you offer the bank half in cash they will take it. They have sooooooo much inventory!!

 

Seems pretty straightforward to me. If you need a bailout, the company has been poorly managed in various ways. Give the company survival funds, if it makes sense to, as outlined in their new business plan, provided that the new business plan identifies all of the NEW executive staff, and also provides measurable performance goals of those managers. If they do not perform, they go away. Period. No golden parachutes, no bonuses, etc. Furthermore, the executive base salaries should be minimal, and profit sharing/bonuses should be company-wide in a meaningful fashion.