Israel:

<<< Creating more enemies every day and with every weapon used to murder civilians labeled " Made in USA"

CUT OFF US AID TO the BASTARDS NOW !!!

 

Unfortunately that area of the world is a sad pustule sore with no answer. :unsure:

In Israels defence I'm sure any country would eventually loose patence with another state that had lobbed 8000 rockets at them and refused to stop even during the official UN brokered cease fire, besides US made fighter aircraft etc Israel actually makes a lot of the ground based weapons including battle tanks themselves.

 

Put your kids to bed at night and pray a rocket doesn't land on them. That's what Israel is dealing with everyday. The Israelies I know have no problem with the Palestinians, it's the extremists who are the problem.

The US has made many mistakes in the Middle East but being friends with Israel is NOT one of them!

 

. Most of their weaponry comes from here.. just not with the lastest guidence systems like whats in the M1Abrahams(I know there is more to the name) they do make thier own weapons as far as personal weapons and assault rifles but we "give " them most of the heavy stuff

 

I'll have to agree with you on this one. What the answer is to resolve it though...:unsure:

I know I would want my countries military to do whatever was necessary to keep my children safe from random rocket fire though.

 

Squirrelman, you are one very angry and very confused individual.

 

+1, but what would you expect from a 64 yr.old pothead? :bs:

 

I'm sure the USA provides a lot of equipment especially air defence etc to Israel, maybe my current knowledge is obsolete but my understanding is Israel also manufactures a lot of their own heavy weapons so they don't have to rely on anyone else who could stop supply including the USA, remember they loose one fight they loose everything forever. Have a look at thier Merkava IV tank which is still in use, the Israeli designed armour was considered the best for its weight at the time also Israel manufactures the 105 & 120mm guns, shells, hull turrent electronics optics etc all by Israeli companies.

I'm not from Israeli background or religion but admit to working closely with Israeli engineers in the past who manufactured and trained me on the extremely reliable High bandwidth Telecomunications equipment I supported at the time. By becoming friends and getting to know them you could see they truely truely wished the hostilities with Palestinians would end and prayed everynight their families could live in peace and safety but they also made it known they would never relinquish the land of Israel to anyone for anything.

Hence the delema, Hamas, Iran and most of the Arab world want Israel and its people to be gone, the Israelis are fully aware of this and regardless of their continual angst they must do what they must do to protect themselves or perish again to history. The Palestinians should accept this as fact and start working out a way forward to a peaceful co-existence which is the only solution possible.

 

John, I'm with you. I too work with Israeli manufacturers. Within one hour of 9/11 I had an e-mail from them expressing sorrow and regret.

Although Israel is very capable of taking care of themselves they tell me they are very grateful when they wake up every morning and look out over the harbor and see the U.S. Naval Fleet.

 

maybe I should clarify, to my knowledge which does go back a few years. When I was In the Military in 199ish, we had a lot of equipement that was shipped to Israel that was to become thiers.

I think the situation is very unpleasant. I have had to deal with rocket attacks every night on ceartain deployments, The Israelis IMO are being driven to no other alternative. sure you can say the Hamas have fired 600 rockets and only killed three people while the Israelis have done numerous sorties and killed hundreds. what are they supposed to do just suck it up. what would the reaction be if Juarez Mexico started shelling El Paso? I'll tell you, Texas would be a few miles bigger and the border would no longer be the rio grande river.

 

We will give you Quebec without the fight.

 

Hey Squirrel:

Anybody who’s done a little study of history in the Middle East knows the Israelis have pulled some stunts that the U.S. has backed that were…well not kosher and we have some blood on our hands as a result. But you seem to be forgetting something that many anti-Israel people always seem to ignore.

First, the culture over there is so vastly different than ours many of the West’s socialist and capitalist ideals DO NOT coincide with the Palestinians beliefs. Talk to any Palestinian who’s now in the States, Isreali soldier, or American soldier who’s served over there and you get some insight of just how deep and varied the problem really is.

Two, Hamas and Hezbollah are not ready to give up the fight! For the past 10 years Israel has given concessions they never would have done before because of pressure from the U.N., the U.S. and the rest of the World. And what has Hamas and Hezbollah done EVERYTIME!? Launched rockets and sent suicide bombers when negotiations are taking place. If you and I were enemies squirrel and we called a truce, but every other day I came by your shop and punched you in the face, it would only be a matter of time before you had enough and chased after me with a tire iron. Madeline Albright said it best: “The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss a good opportunity”.

Third, if Israel was cut off, I hope you don’t mind watching one of the largest humanitarian crises since WWII. If Israel was truly cut off and left alone, what do you think they would do squirrel? I’ll tell you, they’d go on full attack mode and crush all enemies both real and perceived. Part of their attack would include the use of nuclear weapons. People seem to forget Israel has them and if left alone self preservation will become the primary goal. Having our finger and the U.N’s finger in the dyke is helping hold this back. Seems many Noam Chomsky fans forget this.

In closing, I believe in overall support for Israel. Israel has tried to concede with the Palestinians and their extremists aren’t interested. The people I feel bad for are the average Palestinian who’s trying to scrape by and earn a living but can’t because of the anarchy caused by Hamas and Hezbollah, and if they dared say “Hey, why don’t we try and actually get along with Israel”? They, and probably their families, would be tortured and shot.

Hard to have change when dealing with those kind of people.

BZ

p.s. I know Hezbollah is in Lebanon, but in the interest in keeping this short, I left that out.

 

Whew! Just in time, Randy. I was waiting for a little humor to be injected here...

Cheers!

Craig :smile:

 

Who are we worried about making friends with? Iran? Sudan? Chavez?

The entire thing is a farce.
Palestine is world's most lucrative welfare state. They have the means to make a good life, but don't. They build bombs.
Also note they share a boarder with egypt..yet all the welfare(aka aid) flows from Israel and Israel gives them everything.

So we have a country getting shelled with rockets who still wants the cease fire only they are keeping and when the other side fails to even want a cease fire they surgically strike at the militants killing hundreds of them to a few civilians. Militants hiding in hospitals and aid stations. Yet the side targeting civilians is demonized.
People also keep quoting the fact the more Palestinians have died. The stats of people killed merely prove one side is more effective. It's like comparing us casualties in the first desert storm to that of Iraq.

One thing to keep in mind for solutions.
If Palestine lays down it's weapons there will be peace, if Isreal lay down there weapons there will be no Israel.

Article from Globe and Mail Canada. Superb opinion by Canadian General | Vlad Tepes
has a descent idea for peace but it is unpopular in the world community. Also Israel and Palestine would oppose it.

Essentially send the UN in. The peace keeping forces are to be used in conflicts where both sides can not resolve there issues.

It needs to be a strong UN force able to deter rockets and smuggling and bring deadly force to bear.

the problem is the UN won't because the un is full of politically correct and no country would put there troops into such a polarized international issue.
But it would stop attacks from both sides on each other. Once that happen maybe Palestine can rebuild and build infrastructure rather than missiles.

So there is a solution but goverments are to cowardly and politically correct. It also apperently the in thing to demonize Isreal. I can't think of any other country who would take such abuse from a country it can bomb into next week and simply keep taking it.

I also find it intresting the the slaughter in suddan or other countries does not make the news when we are tlaking about 10's of thousands of civilians killed. Yet 50 civilian palastinians make the news and cause riots. all against jews(when was the last time jews rallied and set 2 car bombs rolling toward a mosque..that just happened in France...except the other way around.

The UN has lost all purpose it does not act where it needs to and his bent over the barrel by fanatical minorites making even questioning Islam a capital crime.(no i'm not making it up. Islam is named as a religion under protection by human rights and "defemation" of it is an international crime) So, don't even think of presenting your veiw point...acording to the UN your a terrorist and the guy with the bomb and a doctoret is repressed.

Another thing that bothers me is this idea of "radicals".
this term is stupid, the radical ideas are writen in a book and set into law that can never be changed or altered.
Sharia law mandating death to those who convert from islam, death to women who a raped. This in addition to a book that can't be changed calling for paradise once all jews are killed.(even the stones and rocks will help out by telling them jews are hiding behind them).
There is no such thing as a radical, just those who follow the religion, and those who follow parts of it. Unlike other religions they can't change because word for word they believe it is the word of god, who can change the word of god?
This is a religous issue of Muslims vs Jews..just watch the palastine video's...It's all about the jews.

(i am not rasist and most Muslmis are fine, but it is inspite of being a muslim that they are decent people, the Quaran is the largest collection of hate speech currently in print 75% of it deals with how inferior infidels are(and how they should die. I have actually read this book.)

Sorry for the long rant. Hope pepole do some looking into the reasons why this conflict is happening not just what the media spews out.

 

I'll state for the record: i fully support the idea of Israel .... the pre-1967 Israel within internationally recognized borders!!

Israel turned itself into an expansionist, imperialistic, colonial empire, thus breaking International Law, and the US approved it all. The law says it's a WAR CRIME to build permanent settlements on land captured in war!!



Israel is now a MAD DOG, and the US needs to jerk it's leash, saying "ENOUGH ALREADY"!

According to what i discovered on CBS news recently, in the past 10 years ONLY 20 Israelis were killed by unguided rockets, giving the percentage of kills per rocket fired at about .002%, while Israel, with precision weapons fired into densely populated civilian areas has about a 99% chance of killing 1 to 100 people with each attack. This is extreamely disproportionate, making it a defined WAR CRIME!

Also, did anyone consider that elections are coming soon in Israel, and that the entire Gaza attack may actually be a political gesture to prove that the ruling party is tough on defense??????

 

Squrrel:

Even if Israel went back to 67 boarders, Hamas and Hezbollah will not quit.

Molsan nailed it with : "If Palestine lays down it weapons, there will be peace..."

Molsan's addition of the welfare aid that goes to Palestine is another good point that needs exploring.

BZ

 

How about we provide some low-yield thermonuclear devices to BOTH sides, and let them get it over with. Perhaps the survivors will inclined to be more reasonable...

Just kidding, all. I do find it amazing that there are so many groups of people, all over the world, that have hated each other for hundreds of years for reasons only they understand.

Makes me feel less bad about my cheesy one-wrench tool kit.

 

Isreal already has them for years.
Iran is working on them.

One side will use them, and has openly stated they will.(*hint it's not isreal*)

 

okay and you can have......Gila bend, AZ (its a lovely vacation spotin spite of its name)

 

ROFLMAO!!!! :rofl: (with apologies to my Canadian friends)